[UbuntuWomen] Non-members posting! [was] Re: Fwd: [Blueprint community-1311-ubuntu-women] Ubuntu Women Trusty Goals

Cheri Francis cheri703 at gmail.com
Mon Apr 14 15:35:05 UTC 2014

Forgive me if this is an insensitive question, but I find myself wondering:

I realize that as the founder of UW, Svaksha created the mailing list and
all attendant whatnot, but shouldn't ownership of said list get passed on
to current leadership?

On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 9:03 AM, svakSha <svaksha at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 1:01 PM, Alex Muntada <alexm at alexm.org> wrote:
> > Let me make a quick summary of the technical details regarding
> > this debate so far...
> Thank you for that excellent Agile perspective. My friends who use it
> cant recommend it enough, but I digress...
> > The issue comes from:
> >
> >  a. ubuntu-women list seems to have a discard non-member post
> >     policy, as far as i can tell;
> >  b. ~ubuntu-women team on LP has 347 members;
> >  c. some of them are not subscribed to ubuntu-women list or
> >     use different e-mail addresses on LP and the list;
> >  d. when those people change any blueprint in ~ubuntu-women,
> >     the message sent to ubuntu-women list gets discarded;
> > These solutions have been proposed:
> >
> >  S1. enable the moderation queue instead of discarding non-member
> >      posts on ubuntu-women list and bring more volunteers to help
> >      with moderation if needed;
> >  S2. keep the discard non-member posts policy and encourage people
> >      to subscribe to ubuntu-women list with NOMAIL option;
> >  S3. add verified non-member addresses to accept_these_non_members
> >      option in ubuntu-women list setup;
> >
> > These concerns have been raised:
> >
> >   C1. S1 would bring to much spam to the queue;
> Not just spam, but I would be asking women to volunteer their time on
> a problem that has a technical solution which is not even being
> considered, hence disrespectful of their time and efforts. That said,
> as a programmer we are constantly trying to automate and find
> solutions, so I find it surprising when people dont want to use either
> of the two technical options and features when it exists. Hence, the
> arguments for the manual method surprise the nerd in me.
> >   C2. in S2, blueprint contributors may not know about ubuntu-women
> >       list or may not know/want to subscribe to it, even with NOMAIL;
> If they dont know about UW, why would they be interested in
> participating or emailing us? And, how many such blueprint
> contributors exist and face a problem with posting here? I've been
> asking for numbers but didnt get any. Mailman has a solution for LP
> members not interested in NOMAIL - I can whitelist id's but to do that
> I need the individual to give me their permission (read, a list of all
> the alternate email id's they use). Many LP users keep their email id
> private and there is no way to help them unless they ask for help. I
> am open to adding each of those 347 LP members if they want to use
> multiple email ID's but this is their choice to make. Read, if they
> come forward and tell the admins which email ID to add, I can
> whitelist all of them. Fwiw, the number of people whitelisted in the
> last decade of this list's existence has been just 4 individuals.
> > The issue here is to find the right balance between C1 and C2.
> The fact that this thread arose from one persons false assumptions and
> extrapolated thereafter cannot be ignored, hence a moot point.
> > An approach that agile methologies suggest in cases like this,
> > when there's no win-win situation, is to try for a short while
> > the opposite that's currently being done and see how it works.
> Trust me, the opposite (allowing non-subscribers to post) was tried
> when we started out (circa 2006) and it was a mess pretty soon. Back
> then we were less well-known, and yet were incessantly spammed every
> day and that is true for every Ubuntu list. Today the number would be
> higher. Asking folks to sub (or whitelisting those who didnt want to)
> reduced this problem by almost 99%.
> Fwiw, I have been a part of Agile teams and our approach was to not
> ignore problems (read, potential bugs) that arose out of real usecases
> which are based on past experience and since spam bots are an even
> bigger problem today, I'm interested in hearing thoughts on this from
> a technical perspective, without which it would not be prudent to
> agilely (sorry for the bad pun :)) change the list settings. If hasty
> decisions and permanent changes will impact more people on this list,
> it cannot be ignored.
> As a programmer, my goal is to find and nuke bugs and/or fix things
> that are broken. So when I'm asked to do the opposite, read, create a
> larger bug based on false assumptions, I am confused. Extrapolating on
> that false assumption means we are creating a problem where none
> exists, and none of the LP members have mentioned they have a problem
> posting here. I actually want to hear from LP members who have a
> problem and if I cannot help them, I am open to experimenting with
> (temporarily) allowing non-subscribers to post. But I want to hear
> from LP users directly.
> Best, ॥ svaksha ॥ http://svaksha.com
> --
> Ubuntu-Women mailing list
> Ubuntu-Women at lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-women
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