[UbuntuWomen] Making Ubuntu-for-all _work_

[Melissa Draper]

Jacinta Richardson wrote:
> Melissa Draper wrote:
>
>> Changing the CoC is going to be a touchy and tricky thing to do anyway.
>
> I'm not talking about changing the content of the CoC.  I'm thinking we might be
> able to add a link from the CoC to some etiquette guidelines.  Perhaps that's
> not easy either, I don't know.  I'm familiar with the content of the CoC, but
> not with any other community policies - is there another prominent page that
> might link to such?  As someone who is more familiar with this kind of thing,
> perhaps you can suggest a good way of integrating this so that people who
> honestly want to follow the "be respectful" part of the code can go and read
> what "respectful" means in this society?

Actually, yes, you are. See below for explanation.

>
>> Additionally, any change to the CoC would not be a once off just for us
>> kind of thing. A full analysis of the document would begin, and the
>> whole community would be eligible to suggest changes. It would take a
>> fair deal of time to enact. This is not supposed to be a discouragement
>> -- rather a fair warning of due process.
>
> I understand this, and I am fully aware that attempting to define "respectful"
> will cause issues.  Largely because anything that curtails people's rights to be
> asses when they want to be, tends to cause issues.  I'd love community
> involvement on what it is to be respectful, although I think it would help if UW
> as a whole could present a first draft; or perhaps UFA as a group fully
> supported by the Community Council did such.

If a CoC guidelines was to be created, it would only be useful if it
became a recognised part of the CoC itself. You cannot have people
'sign' a document with a definition, then later on point to another
document that is not even mentioned in the document, that contains a
varied definition and say they agreed to it as well. The CoC will need
to be changed. If you're going to change the CoC to add a link to a
second definition, you may as well change the definition in the CoC and
avoid linked documents that will confuse a good majority of people.

>
>> On another front, the changes need to be really really really well
>> worded, and refrain from using specific examples. When you start using
>> any specifics, you need to use *all* specifics. Can you imagine how long
>> the document would end up? You'd be planning your retirement before
>> anyone finished writing it, let alone the challenge it would be to get
>> people to read it at such a length.
>
> I know.
>
>> As a concern to be noted, we should note that the only people obliged to
>> respect the CoC are those who have signed it. It is a common frustration
>> with those in the IRC channels, for example, that they are subject to
>> something they didn't sign up to or agree to. While it is effectively a
>> TOS statement, most do not perceive it as such.
>
> How powerful is the Community Council?  If it's made explicit that there is a
> TOS (whatever it is), isn't that enough?  People don't have to be involved or
> used the Ubuntu IRC channel or mailing lists.

The Community Council is not really a governing body. It is an advisory
board, a dispute resolution option, and an avenue for people to receive
recognition for their work in terms of Ubuntu Membership and Team
approval. As such, the council cannot really expel people from the
community -- in fact nobody can do so while there are dynamic mediums
such as IRC, forums and mailing lists. The closest they can do is
retract membership from members and admonish misbehaving people without
any punishment other than harsh words.

As for the CoC as a TOS, there is really no way to effectively advise
without spamming. While warnings upon joining the forums and mailing
lists may work for those who choose to use those mediums and who
actually read 'be good' advisories, I believe this is not done. The IRC
channels are advised to have the CoC mentioned in the /topic which is
not always the case. In main channels that the core ops team oversees,
such as #ubuntu, this is the case, but 90% of people seem to never
notice anyway due to there being up to 1200 people in there. Technically
we could periodically notify, but logically that would just increase the
spamminess of a high-traffic channel.

>
> All the best,
>
> 	Jacinta
>
>   


-- 
Sincerely
Melissa Draper

http://www.meldraweb.com

Phone: 0404 595 395
(intl): +61 404 595 395

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Lavington, NSW 2641