[UbuntuWomen] Making Ubuntu-for-all _work_

[Vid Ayer]

Hello,

Thanks for taking this further Jacinta :-)

On 5/20/07, Jacinta Richardson <jarich at perltraining.com.au> wrote:
>
> < jono> and I was also thinking of wider problems of discrimination - race,
> culture, location, knowledge, gender
> < jono> each of these discriminated groups need catering for and the wider
> community needs a single message - equality for all
> < jono> so, I was thinking of a project called Ubuntu For All
> < jono> an equality project that has a number of subgroups, of which u-w would
> be one
>
> Unfortunately he didn't really go into how he was going to make this work, and
> searching for '"Ubunto for all" Jono' suggests that Google can't find further
> mention of it either.

 ... neither does the Ubuntu wiki or Launchpad (when i checked
earlier). It would help to have some more info on UFA, its goals/aims,
problems its seeks to address with clear ideas on how they will be
resolved, if necessary.


> To be honest I'm not 100% taken with the idea.  Svaksha
> said (after Jono left):
>
> < svaksha> Probably, but I dont want the problems women in particular face to be
> swept under the "feel-good-about-creating-foo-group" carpet which is magically
> supposed to solve everything..
>
> and I agree.  Suggesting a grand project to solve a massive social problem
> without any further efforts of engaging the affected people seems unwise to me.

Right, would'nt it be easier if we started out with specific issues
and took small steps to start with ?
...for example.. some folks feel that Ubuntu members are above others
and use the "member" tag to shoot down others.  Some are excessively
vocal (via forums/list/IRC or blogs on planet.ubuntu) while others are
not. Some folks  participate "actively" untill they obtain the
*-member status.

FWIW, this can happen to anyone not related or involving women at all
but the disconnect at some places in a community is disturbing. So, if
there is an issue in any of the above cases, how do we recognise and
address them.


>   However, let's pretend that it'll go ahead with buy-in from the Ubuntu
> Community Council.  It seems to be that we need a few extra resources:
>
> Be respectful
> -------------
> The CoC has this as a requirement, however I think there is a general
> unawareness of what might be meant by "respectful".  This isn't very surprising
> as the concept changes rapidly based on age group even in the same society.
> (Consider high school boys "joshing around", through to old people "expressing
> an interest" in what's going on in the neighbourhood).  It might be a good idea
> to attach a guide to what being respectful means to spell this out for those who
> aren't certain.  Vid's Etiquette Guidelines (
> http://mosshead.com/wikichix/index.php?title=EtiquetteGuidelines ) might be a
> good place to start.

True, fuzziness does not work and amongst all the talk of COC its easy
for the issue to not be addressed  in concrete and tangible ways.
Matthew Garrett's draft[0] is also a good place to start. I also found
a COCGuidelines[1] page (which was empty) and have temporarily parked
the Etiquette Guidelines there.

[0] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CodeOfConductDisputeResolution
[1] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CodeOfConductGuidelines


> Consequences
> ------------
> There should be some concept of consequences when someone steps outside of
> acceptable boundaries.  Relying on peers to shame people into doing the right
> thing doesn't work in the case where many of the participants fail to see the
> issue with the offensive behaviour.  If most of your peers think (or seem to
> think) that your behaviour is okay, then there's no shame in continuing it -
> even if it crosses all the acceptable lines.  Consider the following:

+1 to all of the above.

>
> Having consequences means you're serious, and thus legitimises the issues.  It
> means it's okay for those who are offended to say so even if everyone else is
> implying that the behaviour is okay.  Just like the real world, if breaking the
> rules has no, or very rare consequences then there's no incentive to change
> behaviour.

+1 again.


> Having consequences encourages individuals to change and if that can happen, the
> community will change.

The Ubuntu COC was a first step in this regard, so logically the next
would be to roughly define what is acceptable or not in an online
community like ours. Certain patterns (online/in society?) are
repetitive, can be quantified and addressed somewhat. I am aware it
will not address every single issue with each and every permutation
and combination thrown in, but we need to start somewhere and I hope
[0] and [1] provide the momentum to get this rolling ahead.


> Going forward
> -------------
> I'think we need two conversations on this.  The first is on the elaboration on
> respect.
>         Are you happy to start with Vid's document?
>         How can this document be improved?  (Feel free to make changes)
>         How can this be written to be acceptable to the Ubuntu community?
>         How might we go about attaching this to the CoC, or is there
>         a better place for it?
>
> The second is with respect to consequences.
>         Are there clear consequences detailed from the Ubuntu Community Council
>         for various offences?
>
>         Beyond banning persistent offenders from various parts (or the whole) of
>         the project are there other consequences that can be invoked?  For
>         example, is there a way we can make examples of those who misbehave
>         (hall of shame?) without making it a competition to get listed?

I would love to hear what folks here think about this, particularly
from women.  This is your chance to speakup, raise objections,
(dis)agree, whatever....

Also can folks active in UbuntuForums post Jacinta's  message there please ?

Can we schedule a meeting on IRC this week if possible. I am available
6-10pm IST till Friday.   Please note that due to timezones and
work/busyness/life, it may not be possible for everyone to attend all
meetings. Since IRC logs are not maintained it is not exactly open and
transparent as far as decision-making  is concerned.

Hence, major discussions on IRC *should always* be summarised to the
mailing list/ubuntuforum before being considered final, especially
policy and the like.
Chat != Documentation

Thanks,
Vid
http://wiki.ubuntu-women.org/VidAyer