[UbuntuWomen] Some will never learn...

Sun Apr 1 00:00:38 UTC 2007

Sorry about the long email, but I need to vent ...

I hadn't really thought too much about how the misogyny that lurks
(not very far) under the surface of sites like digg and slashdot has
the power to effect women who are in interested in technology.  I'm
thinking about it now, and the more I think about it, the angrier I'm
getting.

I learnt a long time ago that its not worth reading certain comment
threads on this kind of site.  I know that, generally, anything
talking about women in tech or women in general is going to be filled
with the kind of comments that will only make me angry and depressed.
The comments range from openly hostile to jokingly hostile to plain
clueless, but they're rarely censored or corrected by the "community".

When the Kathy Sierra story was breaking I mentioned to a friend that
I didn't want to read the comment thread on digg.  He didn't
understand why not.  It turns out I misjudged the thread about Kathy
Sierra, even they couldn't laugh off that one.  When I pointed out
another story that had made the front page of digg a day or two later
(http://digg.com/offbeat_news/Cyberbullies_scare_schoolgirls_into_stripping_online),
he didn't understand the connection.  The news article in question
wasn't particularly good, and on its merits probably shouldn't have
made the front page.  The tone and attitude of the comments was
poisonous, though, and the few comments that actually talked about the
issue seriously were buried by the community.

And this got me thinking.  This kind of crap is never far below the
surface of this kind of site, so I'm not surprised that not many women
get involved in them.  But these sites tend to be major sources of
news and information in geek circles.  I suspect that a lot of people
getting involved in tech will start with this kind of news site, and
if this is the kind of introduction women get I'm surprised that any
women at all would pursue a budding interest further.  Once you're in
the field, there's this feeling that you're not a "real" techie person
unless you keep up with all the news as it breaks (meaning checking
digg etc as often as you can get away with).  If you don't want to do
that, well, maybe you just don't love tech enough to be in the
industry (or maybe you just don't want to be checking sites like that
in a situation where its inappropriate to start shouting at the
computer, or you think that constantly being reminded about all the
jerks out there might break your concentration a bit).

Sometimes it just feels like the geekier corners of the internet are
treehouses filled with little boys and a "no girls" sign on the door.
You could maybe force your way in by pretending to be a boy, or
getting their mothers involved, but it doesn't really seem worth
getting inside.

Maybe all we can do it leave them to their little treehouses, and keep
building our own clubhouses with our own rules.  The state of play in
the geek/tech world is really depressing sometimes, though.

Anna

On 4/1/07, B.A. Lopez <dinda at mac.com> wrote:
> My first reaction was "nah, I don't see any reason for U-W to go to
> the CC with this."  After all Caroline did what she felt best for her
> situation, as did Miriam, as did Lyz, Melissa and many others but
> then I realized there is a definite pattern here that needs to be
> recorded and "someone" (everyone) needs to be made aware of  it.
> Lyz referenced this blog entry in her own blog and it really made me
> rethink some things.  I used to read Fark.com regularly but I realize
> Slashdot is often just as bad with the "This thread useless without
> pics" comments whenever a woman posts or is referenced in an
> article.  Here's an excerpt from Caveat Lector:
>
> http://cavlec.yarinareth.net/archives/2007/03/30/what-some-folks-can-
> do-if-they-choose/
>
> "But the cycle can be broken. It just has to be broken by men. And, I
> believe, it needs to be broken as early as possible in the cycle,
> while the norms of a particular community are still forming. Once
> they've crystallized such that pr0n jokes and "I'd hit that" are
> acceptable, the battle is lost. That community is inevitably going to
> drive away some woman sometime, and probably a lot of them. Moreover,
> I have yet to see such a community reform itself."
>
> That last line worries me a great deal b/c I think Ubuntu is still in
> the formation stages.  But as to what to take to the CC, I'd like
> your suggestions.  I told some folks in private email that this could
> also just be an email to the CC making them aware of this pattern
> rather than anyone having to attend a CC meeting.  I'm willing to do
> both, either or even nothing if that is the general consensus.
>
> Did we ever set a time for the next U-W IRC meeting for April 14/15?
> I think we got a topic to discuss.  ;-)
>
> regards,
>
> Dinda
>
> On Mar 30, 2007, at 7:21 AM, Mirjam Wäckerlin wrote:
>
> >> And in the end, in a case like this one where all the evidence is in
> >> archived email and blogs, I think the Ubuntu-Women team itself can
> >> easily send representatives to deal with this issue at the CC.
> >
> > That is indeed a good idea and also what imho the team is existing
> > for.
> >
> >> We don't
> >> need to pull Caroline in directly, she doesn't need to exhaust
> >> herself
> >> defending herself, we can say "This is happening, she contributed
> >> to her
> >> LoCo and now has been driven away, it needs to stop" There were even
> >> some "little" things that she brought up like the LoCo leader calling
> >> everyone "chaps" that are a sadly subtle way of making us feel
> >> excluded
> >> and need to be brought to someone's attention. That's what this
> >> team is
> >> all about :)
> >
> > I perfectly agree with you.
> > So what do you think (this question is directed to all subscribers)
> > should ubuntu-women go to CC to deal with this issue?
> >
> > Mirjam
>
>
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