[UbuntuWomen] Be encouraged!

Judy Okite judyokite at gmail.com
Mon Apr 2 16:22:19 UTC 2007 

Hello Ladies,

Am really sorry and I do feel for all of you who have been victims of this
sort of behaviour(stupidity or sadism?)

Just to encourage all of us,this kind of behaviour is as a result of
intimidation......these men feel intimidated by you...and this is the best
way they can get back at you....dont let it get into you or make you loose
focus on your goal...what we need to do is,once you have let the list admin
know...throw it off the window,ignore and dont stop,posting.....just
remember:
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy
enough people to make it worth the effort.

and he who annoys you,controls you...dont let it happen, we have energy,lets
focus them else where.

Kind Regards,

On 4/2/07, ubuntu-women-request at lists.ubuntu.com <
ubuntu-women-request at lists.ubuntu.com> wrote:
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re:  ubuntu-women Digest, Vol 15, Issue 2 (Miss Augustina)
>    2. Re:  Some will never learn... (Miss Augustina)
>    3.  Men who hate women on the Web - ripples from the Kathy
>       Sierra story (Romana Branden)
>    4. Re:  Some will never learn... (Melissa Draper)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 11:55:04 -0700
> From: "Miss Augustina" <missaugustina at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [UbuntuWomen] ubuntu-women Digest, Vol 15, Issue 2
> To: ubuntu-women at lists.ubuntu.com
> Message-ID:
>         <c6a0b72e0704011155q2b39e3eds3fe3783fe012cb82 at mail.gmail.com >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I understand when I read PlanetUbuntu that these are personal blogs and
> the
> views expressed by the writers do not necessarily represent *ubuntu*.  If
> a
> writer is being extremely offensive, that's one thing.  If a writer is
> expressing an opinion over something that happened in the Ubuntu
> community,
> I think that is perfectly OK and not in violation of any standards.  The
> fact that they are choosing to express themselves in their personal blog
> that they host vs on a forum gives people a lot of leeway.  Not everything
> written in blogs on planet ubuntu is in line with the ubuntu code of
> conduct.  If that is something that you feel is important, then instead of
> targeting Caroline you should take it up with the appropriate Ubuntu
> community group and suggest all blogs should equally adhere to this code.
>
> Many of us who stand up in these situations quickly become targeted.  It
> doesn't stop me from standing up but it does make me less enthusiastic
> about
> being involved in a group where I was targeted.  I'll give an example of
> my
> situation, and I'm curious to hear stories from other Ubuntu Women as
> well.
>
>
> There is an independent electronic fest that happens locally called
> Decibel
> Fest.  On a local electronic music mailing list the organizer posted an
> email with the subject "Club Boobies".  I thought it was odd but ignored
> it
> as the post itself had nothing to do with the subject.  One list member
> asked why he'd used "Club Boobies" as a subject, and he replied "so that
> people would read the email - everyone loves boobies" or something to that
> effect.  I voiced that I felt that was really inappropriate and only
> served
> to further marginalize women in the electronic music community, and that
> as
> a high profile member of the community he should apologize.  Well he
> didn't,
> he instead blasted me saying things like "the war in Iraq and our bad
> president is a bigger issue it's too bad we can't focus on all the piddly
> little issues out there".  I complained to the list owner and got nothing
> from him.  This guy is kind of *big* in the community so everyone was
> afraid
> to say anything to him lest they fall out of his good graces.. and
> basically
> I got black listed.  No one said anything to me publicly although
> privately
> I was told that they also felt he was a little out of line.  Gee thanks.
>
> Whoa that was a lot!!  Haha..
>
> Augustina
>
>
>
>
>
> On 4/1/07, ubuntu-women-request at lists.ubuntu.com <
> ubuntu-women-request at lists.ubuntu.com > wrote:
>
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 23:16:17 -0400
> > From: "Ubuntu Ready" <ubuntuready at gmail.com>
> > Subject: [UbuntuWomen] A slight caveat
> > To: ubuntu-women at lists.ubuntu.com
> > Message-ID:
> >         <229c320d0703312016x9eee592vbb502727ba23285c at mail.gmail.com >
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Caroline found a sexist joke on her forum, and pointed out that it
> > violated
> > the Ubuntu Code of Conduct. She was right in doing this. Her behavior
> was
> > appropriate. A discussion followed as to whether or not her observation
> > was
> > correct. Caroline did not participate in this discussion. The poster of
> > the
> > sexist joke was unable to concede that his joke was inappropriate, but
> he
> > apologized to whomever was offended. The consensus of the people on the
> > forum was that the joke was inappropriate. Why was there a discussion at
> > all? Because nobody at Ubuntu, not even Mark Shuttlesworth, tells the
> rest
> > of us how to think. We decide for ourselves. The Ubuntu Community
> respects
> > our individual autonomy, as women and men. The consensus of the people
> on
> > the forum was that the joke was inappropriate. Apologies were made, not
> > only
> > by the poster, but by many others as well. Caroline did not participate
> in
> > this discussion.
> >
> > Later, Caroline wrote in her blog, which was syndicated on Ubuntu UK
> > Planet.
> > In it, she used a rather harsh expletive, and in response, she received
> an
> > anonymous complaint: "I find this post both offensive and rude.
> > Considering
> > your recent reaction to an email on the ubuntu-uk's mailing list. I am
> > shocked that you use such bad language, knowing full well that it will
> be
> > shown on the ubuntu-uk planet. If you wish to continue being so crude,
> > please remove yourself from the planet."
> >
> > Although one could interpret such a response as baiting her, we all
> > understand that text-based forums, such as email and user-groups are
> rife
> > with misunderstandings that arise as a result of interpreting written
> > language the same way we interpret speech. We can easily read sarcasm
> > where
> > it does not reside. Anyone who has used the internet for longer than a
> > month
> > has fallen into a bitter dispute over a comment misinterpreted (or
> > accurately interpreted) as a flame, and friends get lost and feelings
> get
> > hurt by such disputes. The savvy internet user knows that these disputes
> > erupt constantly, and sagely side-steps them when they arise.
> >
> > Even if we were to interpret this comment in the most hostile possible
> > way,
> > the anonymous complaint has merit, even if his suggestion for resolution
> > does not. The objection to her obscene language is appropriate.
> >
> > * Her language was offensive.
> > * To my knowledge, she has not taken the admonition with nearly the
> grace
> > that she would insist upon in the author of the sexist joke.
> >
> > We are all traumatized and appalled by the threats against Kathy Sierra.
>
> > To
> > suggest that Caroline is being similarly victimized is disingenuous.
> >
> > It is truly not my intention to upset anyone on this mailing list. I
> > consider everyone on this list to be my colleagues. I would like to
> > believe
> > that, in this post, I have tried to treat all of you with the utmost
> > respect
> > and courtesy. I spent ninety minutes writing this post, and I feel I
> have
> > been very careful in my deliberate choice of words. Should you choose to
>
> > reply to this post, I ask that you please react to what I have written
> as
> > if
> > I spent ninety minutes writing this post, and had been very careful in
> my
> > choice of words.
> >
> > Jeremy.
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 12:08:07 -0700
> From: "Miss Augustina" <missaugustina at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [UbuntuWomen] Some will never learn...
> To: ubuntu-women at lists.ubuntu.com
> Message-ID:
>         <c6a0b72e0704011208r4f22c839w5816c84ffccd7f3a at mail.gmail.com >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> I totally agree.  Although some sites are pretty central, like Slashdot.
> Sometimes you can't really moderate the community but if your organizers
> uphold a standard then it helps.  I tend to filter a lot when I'm
> interacting with those sites, and while sexism is a big deal, there is
> also
> a lot of general stupidity that even smart people have to filter out.  The
>
> state of the world is that most people are stupid and that's really really
> sad.  I'm lucky to have found the Ubuntu community where there seems to be
> less of that than in most places.  It's really up to us to support sites
> and
> become active in those communities.  It's also important to speak out in
> the
> right context when we feel something is wrong.  Not necessarily with the
> intention of fixing it, but sometimes just identifying a problem is
> important.
>
> Augustina
>
> On 4/1/07, ubuntu-women-request at lists.ubuntu.com <
> ubuntu-women-request at lists.ubuntu.com > wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Message: 4
> > Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2007 16:18:20 +0930
> > From: Amanda Angell <amandaangell at spin.net.au>
> > Subject: Re: [UbuntuWomen] Some will never learn...
> > To: Ubuntu-Women <ubuntu-women at lists.ubuntu.com>
> > Message-ID: <200704011618.21135.amandaangell at spin.net.au >
> > Content-Type: text/plain;  charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > On Sunday 01 April 2007 3:45 pm, t u wrote:
> > > Amanda Angell wrote:
> > > > [snip] It just means that women will congregate around the better
> > sites
> > > > (or start their own) in the future [snip]
> > >
> > > There won't be any "better sites" if no one fights back though...
> >
> > There already are better sites out there than the *one* I don't go to
> > anymore.
> > What's the point of trying to make all the bad ones good? Sounds like a
> > fight
> > that we'll never win, certainly not everywhere.
> >
> > The internet isn't all doom-and-gloom for women. There are more positive
>
> > things we can be doing with our time. :)
> >
> > Amanda.
> >
> >
>
> --
> do you ubuntu?
> http://www.ubuntu.com
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 06:39:40 +0930
> From: Romana Branden <timelady at gmail.com>
> Subject: [UbuntuWomen] Men who hate women on the Web - ripples from
>         the     Kathy Sierra story
> To: Ubuntu-Women <ubuntu-women at lists.ubuntu.com>,
>         chix at au.linuxchix.org ,  LinuxSA <linuxsa at linuxsa.org.au>
> Message-ID: <46101F94.1030906 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> An intriguing article on Salon (click through ad to read...)
> http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2007/03/31/sierra/
>
> "Men who hate women on the Web. And the women (like me) who try to
> ignore them. Or at least I did -- until the Kathy Sierra affair."
>
> Nice to see a discussion being opened. The Kathy Sierra affair has at
> least had that much of a positive associated. Its unfortunate many men
> (or often, adolescents who think they are men) don't realise how
> grindingly erosive the undercurrent of misogyny and sexism is.
>
> 'I wouldn't hit that' is so common a response to any story about a
> female, no matter the context. I enjoy much of the humour of Fark.com,
> and the topics of Digg, but honestly, I often have to walk away from the
> stupid comments about the sexual attractiveness of any woman.
>
> That doesn't even then touch on how virulently hostile men can be to
> having their innuendo and bad taste jokes, their sexual ratings etc,
> pointed out as uncomfortable, a double standard, wrong! It can range
> from 'lighten up', 'get a life', 'whats your problem', to vicious
> comments about the offended person's sexuality, mental state, and now,
> in the case of Kathy Sierra, and disturbingly large amounts of surfacing
> anecdotal evidence, threats of rape or other violence.
>
> To all the people suggesting such threats can be dismissed because they
> are online, they obviously have thicker skins, or no sense that people
> can be unhinged enough to carry through with revolting behavior. If I am
> upset by your comments, I do not suggest I will rape or assault you.
>
> Noone is suggesting tip toeing on eggshells around each other. But what
> is wrong with (the sadly misnamed as) common courtesy being used? Or
> treating people as people, not as some anonymous target, sexual object,
> etc? Would you say such things to a woman's face? Would you like your
> mother, daughter, sister, treated this way?  And there is no need to
> ignore the fact that men and women can be attractive to each other, it
> is just about how you approach it. I am happy to say "oo, I find Patrick
> Stewart to be a hottie', but I don't then feel the need to denigrate the
> sexual attractiveness of other men.
>
> All this questioning about why women are less in IT - well, the
> prevailing impression of an adolescent community is perpetuated by the
> stories floating to the surface.
>
> I have a thick skin, but its not about me, and thats why I am speaking
> up. My beautiful geek inclined (and the non geeky ones) daughters
> deserve better.
>
> I must point out how lucky I have been - all the geek community my
> wonderful girls have encountered have been magic. So far. But thats the
> filter we put in place, as parents. The majority of Linux and geeky
> people I have encountered have also been great. But there have been some
> that have left me shaking, with rage, with fear, with a feeling of being
> judged on my gender....thats not ok.
>
> Just some points to ponder....
> r:)
> --
> -o)    Romana Branden
>   /\\   Nothing - well, thats something.
> _\_V   http://timelady.com/blog/
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2007 20:23:40 +1000
> From: Melissa Draper < melissa at meldraweb.com>
> Subject: Re: [UbuntuWomen] Some will never learn...
> To: Ubuntu-Women <ubuntu-women at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Message-ID: < 4610D9AC.8090704 at meldraweb.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> Caroline Ford wrote:
> > http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=932
> >
> > This is Jono Bacon's take on the matter. Somebody whom I'm generally not
>
> > very impressed with.
> >
> > Matthew Garrett and Mako have a *much* better understanding of the
> > issues involved. Jono appears not to have read the Code of Conduct.
> >
> > Caroline
>
> Caroline,
>
> I know you're angry, I really do. I've been there before for different
> but unfortunately related reasons. However, we do need to take a
> rational look at things. That is all that was asked for in the blog post
> you referred to, we need to provide a balanced perspective.
>
> The blogosphere, related communities and the media are currently taking
> note of what is going on, reading, following, waiting with baited breath
> for the next twist to this story. Our conversation here for instance is
> being played out in the public eye.
>
> Having said that, I'd respectfully like to now ask you to please think
> about what is being said.
>
> On Thursday, I spoke over the issue, your issue, with Jono Bacon and the
> Ubuntu-UK Contact, the two people you mentioned in your email on that
> day. Neither were impressed with the comments you made about them in the
> publicly viewable forum that is this list. They were both quite
> disappointed with the way you spoke about them, without having consulted
> either beforehand.
>
> I am personally quite disappointed at the things you have said about
> Jono, of lacking impartiality and not complying with the CoC. It may be
> perceived that I am taking a side here. I am. I am taking the side of
> someone who I've worked with intensively since September, and is someone
> who I consider to be both a friend and a mentor.
>
> Looking over the past week, and I say this as respectfully as it is
> possible to do so, I can see that you yourself have not been entirely
> respectful - having said things about others without having first
> properly consulted them.
>
> So please, and this is to everyone on the list, if you have a problem
> with someone, talk to the person. If you have an issue with the way that
> person dealt with it, please take it to someone who's position or job it
> is to handle such disputes.
>
> --
> Sincerely
> Melissa Draper
>
> http://www.meldraweb.com
>
> Phone: 0404 595 395
> (intl): +61 404 595 395
>
> P.O Box 1412
> Lavington, NSW 2641
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> --
> ubuntu-women mailing list
> ubuntu-women at lists.ubuntu.com
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-women
>
>
> End of ubuntu-women Digest, Vol 15, Issue 3
> *******************************************
>



-- 
Judy Ann Okite,
+254-721237507,+254-734252336
P.O. BOX 2228 00100,
NAIROBI,KENYA.


"Even if you are on the right track, you'll still get run over if you just
sit there."
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