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    It's hard to kill a dead horse.<br>
    Johnny3 65++ I can still remember I forgot.<br>
    <br>
    On 03/14/2012 04:05 PM, Kenny Martsolf wrote:
    <blockquote
cite="mid:CAP_O1LLO+1KLazNNW+Ce-CS4vdjEGHs+F_zFoaDFDWh3jvMj0Q@mail.gmail.com"
      type="cite">Wow.... This is going to go on all day, isn't it?<br>
      <br>
      <div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 3:56 PM, Dave
        Woyciesjes <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
            href="mailto:woyciesjes@sbcglobal.net">woyciesjes@sbcglobal.net</a>></span>
        wrote:<br>
        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
          .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
          <div class="im">On 03/14/2012 03:13 PM, Alexander Skwar wrote:<br>
          </div>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
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            <div class="im">
              Hi.<br>
              <br>
              On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 17:38, Dave Woyciesjes<<a
                moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:woyciesjes@sbcglobal.net" target="_blank">woyciesjes@sbcglobal.net</a>>
               wrote:<br>
            </div>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
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              <div class="im">
                On 03/14/2012 11:50 AM, Alexander Skwar wrote:<br>
              </div>
              <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
                .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                <div class="im">
                  Am 14.03.2012 16:38 schrieb "Dave Woyciesjes"<<a
                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:woyciesjes@sbcglobal.net"
                    target="_blank">woyciesjes@sbcglobal.net</a><br>
                  <mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:woyciesjes@sbcglobal.net"
                    target="_blank">woyciesjes@sbcglobal.net</a>>>:<br>
                  <br>
                   ><br>
                   >  On 03/14/2012 10:59 AM, Alexander Skwar (ML)
                  wrote:<br>
                   >><br>
                   >>  Am 14.03.2012 15:52, schrieb Robert P. J.
                  Day:<br>
                   >>><br>
                   >>>  On Wed, 14 Mar 2012, M.R. wrote:<br>
                   >>><br>
                   >>>>  However, I *will change* my usage
                  of the subject line if told so by<br>
                   >>>>  the list owner/moderator, or if
                  another participant points me to<br>
                   >>>>  where the list owner has a
                  documented directive that the subject<br>
                   >>>>  lines must not be changed inside a
                  thread. (This would be the only<br>
                   >>>>  list with such rule I'm aware of,
                  but I guess that's what a list<br>
                   >>>>  owner has the right to do).<br>
                   >>>><br>
                   >>>>  M.R.<br>
                   >>><br>
                   >>><br>
                   >>>  first, you need to get out more often
                  as everyone else is correct<br>
                   >>>  and you are wrong.<br>
                   >><br>
                   >><br>
                   >>  Actually, that's not a correct statement.
                  At least Liam and Basil<br>
                   >>  are on a wrong track.<br>
                   ><br>
                   ><br>
                </div>
                 >          Really? Where&  how?
                <div class="im"><br>
                  <br>
                  You know perfectly well where.<br>
                </div>
              </blockquote>
              <div class="im">
                <br>
                <br>
                       No, I don't. That's why I'm asking.<br>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
            <br>
            Sure.<br>
            <br>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
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                <div class="im">  >>>  second, and more
                  critically, you seem to be taking an amazingly<br>
                   >>>  obstinate position on something that
                  would be trivially easy to<br>
                   >>>  change. all people are asking you to do
                  is use a new message to start<br>
                   >>>  a new thread.<br>
                   >><br>
                   >><br>
                   >>  But, if you have a look, he didn't start a
                  new thread! The subject<br>
                   >>  line is supposed to be a brief "overview"
                  of what's in the mail.<br>
                   >>  If the topic (or, maybe we might even call
                  it "subject") changes,<br>
                   >>  it's correct to change the subject
                  contents.<br>
                   ><br>
                   ><br>
                   >          No, the correct method is: If you are
                  wanting to reply to a<br>
                   >  message in a thread, and your reply is taking
                  the discussion to a new<br>
                </div>
                 >  direction necessitating a Subject line change;
                then the polite&  proper
                <div class="im"><br>
                   >  this to do is open a new message window, copy
                  the body contents of what<br>
                   >  you are replying to, paste in to the new
                  message window. Then add your<br>
                </div>
                 >  reply&  send.
                <div class="im"><br>
                  <br>
                  No, that is not correct.<br>
                  <br>
                  Correct procedure: Change the subject line, but do not
                  produce a new<br>
                  mail. This way, the threading stays intact. After all,
                  the changed mail<br>
                  used to have to do something with the previous mail.<br>
                </div>
              </blockquote>
              <div class="im">
                <br>
                <br>
                       The point of threading is to group messages that
                relate to a specific<br>
                subject. Yes, the changed _used_ to have something to do
                with the original,<br>
                but the key word/phrase there is 'used to'.<br>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
            <div class="im">
              <br>
              Yep, "used to" is the key. That's why it's correct to
              change the<br>
              subject and that's why MUAs keep the threading intact, by
              not<br>
              removing the headers used for threading (In-Reply-To
              and/or<br>
              References).<br>
              <br>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
          <br>
                 So, then, pray tell, if a new message used to have
          something to do with a specific thread, but no longer does;
          Why would you want them to be connected?
          <div class="im"><br>
            <br>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
              .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
              <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
                .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">      
                 Why would you want a message about KDE in your grouping
                of messages<br>
                about Acrobat?<br>
              </blockquote>
              <br>
              If it relates, then that's exactly the reason.<br>
            </blockquote>
            <br>
          </div>
                 If it relates, then the Subject shouldn't (need) to be
          changed.
          <div class="im"><br>
            <br>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
              .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
              <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
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                <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
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                  The way you suggested makes sure that threading
                  brakes, which is bad.<br>
                </blockquote>
                <br>
                <br>
                       Sounds like you have an uncommon definition of
                threading.<br>
              </blockquote>
              <br>
              If *you* say so…<br>
            </blockquote>
            <br>
          </div>
                 And just about everyone else here.<br>
          <br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
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            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
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              <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
                .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                <div class="im">  >>  What confuses me - why this
                  "hate"? He's not doing anything<br>
                   >>  wrong! On the contrary, he's completely
                  right!<br>
                   >><br>
                   >>  Alexander<br>
                   ><br>
                   ><br>
                   >          Hate? I see no hate. Just people asking
                  someone to follow the<br>
                </div>
                group's guidelines; and follow common&  long
                standing list-serve
                <div class="im"><br>
                  etiquette.<br>
                  <br>
                  Hate was the wrong word.<br>
                </div>
              </blockquote>
              <div class="im">
                <br>
                <br>
                       I didn't think that's the word you really wanted.<br>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
            <div class="im">
              <br>
              Correct. I really do blame it on the fact, that english<br>
              isn't my mother tongue.<br>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
          <br>
                 International communication over text-based medium is
          always 'fun'.<br>
          <br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
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              <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
                .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                Point is: people complain, although Mr follows
                common&  long standing
                <div class="im"><br>
                  list-serve etiquette. People even suggest to break
                  this etiquette.<br>
                </div>
              </blockquote>
              <br>
              <br>
                     Hmmm, now this _is curious. You&  MR say he is
              following the common
              <div class="im"><br>
                etiquette; yet pretty much everyone else here says our
                method is following<br>
                the common etiquette....<br>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
            <div class="im">
              <br>
              Indeed. This _is_ curious. Please also keep in mind, how<br>
              the mail clients actually act. They do *not* remove the<br>
              "threading headers". Especially for that reason.<br>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
          <br>
                 Yes, I've known for a while now that mail clients don't
          remove threading info. That's the whole reason behind the idea
          of starting a new thread for a different topic.<br>
          <br>
          <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
            .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
            <div class="im">
              <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
                .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
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                  Quite simple: if the subject of a sub-thread changes,
                  then change the<br>
                  subject line. But do Not start a new thread!<br>
                </blockquote>
                <br>
                <br>
                       So, you're saying that this whole mailing list,
                and any messages<br>
                coming after this; should all be part of one thread?<br>
              </blockquote>
              <br>
              If they relate to this thread - why, yes, of course!<br>
              <br>
            </div>
            <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
              .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
              <div class="im">
                <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
                  .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
                  He seems to follow this old rule. So please stop
                  moaning.<br>
                </blockquote>
                <br>
                       If you want to bolster your side of this
                argument, please provide<br>
              </div>
              everyone with references to articles&  such (hopefully
              they will have
              <div class="im"><br>
                dates).<br>
                       The only way to win an argument like this is to
                provide irrefutable<br>
                proof that you are correct.<br>
              </div>
            </blockquote>
            <div class="im">
              <br>
              Like you provided arguments… Up to now, you haven't
              provided<br>
              any proof either. I can just refer to how mailing lists
              always used<br>
              to behave, or, rather, what's the common way of dealing
              with this<br>
              "issue" was. It contradicts to what you seem to assume to
              be the<br>
              common way.<br>
              <br>
            </div>
          </blockquote>
          <br>
                 Yes, your are correct, I haven't provided any links
          about how this should be done. I will look for some.<br>
                 In the meantime, you have yet to do the same.<br>
          <br>
          <br>
          Is this what banging your head on a brick wall feels like?
          <div class="im HOEnZb"><br>
            <br>
            -- <br>
            --- Dave Woyciesjes<br>
            --- ICQ# 905818<br>
            --- AIM - woyciesjes<br>
            --- CompTIA A+ Certified IT Tech - <a
              moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="http://certification.comptia.org/" target="_blank">http://certification.comptia.org/</a><br>
            --- HDI Certified Support Center Analyst - <a
              moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.ThinkHDI.com/"
              target="_blank">http://www.ThinkHDI.com/</a><br>
                       Registered Linux user number 464583<br>
            <br>
            "Computers have lots of memory but no imagination."<br>
            "The problem with troubleshooting is that trouble shoots
            back."<br>
             - from some guy on the internet.<br>
            <br>
          </div>
          <div class="HOEnZb">
            <div class="h5">
              -- <br>
              ubuntu-users mailing list<br>
              <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="mailto:ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com"
                target="_blank">ubuntu-users@lists.ubuntu.com</a><br>
              Modify settings or unsubscribe at: <a
                moz-do-not-send="true"
                href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users"
                target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users</a><br>
            </div>
          </div>
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