Graham yeah i agree. My definitions of professional is something like - a person who i) is integrating ubuntu systems into the enterprise, or ii) is paid or seeks to be paid to implement ubuntu technologies, or iii) one who has attained the accreditation of Ubuntu Professional iii) focuses on building business with Ubuntu linux Basically anyone that is using Ubuntu to make a living or build a business with Ubuntu in business environments. Mark Shuttleworth is a very successful businessman and for some of us Ubuntu is about business (for the majority of the time). Thats not to say I dont enjoy it personally. Thanks for your post. It was well considered! Take care Trent