Kubuntu 18.04.2 LTS -> Ubuntu 19.04

[Volker Wysk]

Am Dienstag, den 18.06.2019, 13:49 +0200 schrieb Liam Proven:
> On Mon, 17 Jun 2019 at 18:08, Volker Wysk <post at volker-wysk.de>
> wrote:
> 
> > And some are buggy to a higher degree than others. You wrote it
> > yourself: KDE4/5 are totally unusable.
> 
> *For me*. I have colleagues who love it.
> 
> I don't like it. It is not "unusable."
> 
> > I agree. I'm having trouble with KDE Plasma as well as with KDE
> > Applications (KDEPIM, in particular). KMail would be wonderful, if
> > it
> > worked...
> 
> So don't use KMail, then. There are *dozens* of email clients
> included
> with Ubuntu.

KMail breaking again, was the last straw for me. I then switched to
Claws Mail, which works reasonably well, and now I'm using Evolution,
which works even better.

> I personally use Thunderbird, which I find works very well, and also
> runs on my Mac at home and under Windows if I really need it.
> 
> > I'm not expecting I can get something completely stable. But it
> > should
> > be usable.
> 
> Of course you can get completely stable, if that's what you want
> above
> all else. 

After all the frustration with KDE, I emphasise stability. But that's
not the only thing that's important for me. I want the latest and
greatest features. And desktop search, the Semantic Desktop,
integration between the parts, and more.

> But it means something slow-changing, with fewer
> cutting-edge features.
> 
> Xfce is about the most stable, slowest-changing Linux desktop, but if
> you go for something even more basic, like a plain window manager,
> you
> will get more stable still.
> 
> E.g. take a look at BunsenLabs.
> 
> https://www.bunsenlabs.org/
> 
> No "desktop" as such, just OpenBox.
> 
> > > KDE is the most mature Linux desktop there is.
> > 
> > You mean KDE 3, or what? It wasn't meant as a joke, was it? :->
> 
> No. KDE is 21 years old. Nothing else is older or more mature than
> that.

So the Nepomuk/Baloo/Akonadi/KDEPIM/Kmail disasters are signs of
maturity?

> 
> > I don't know which way it has come into being, but I like Gnome 3
> > very
> > much. It's a new, innovative user interface, and I think it is very
> > useful.
> 
> Fine, if you like it. But as I said, it's still under rapid
> development 

That's the reason I want to go to non-LTS release.

> and major features are coming and going. E.g. a recent
> release dropped support for desktop icons.
> 
> https://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2018/01/gnome-desktop-icons-removed-3-28
> 
> The team are also working on a major memory leak problem.
> 
> https://feaneron.com/2018/04/20/the-infamous-gnome-shell-memory-leak/
> 
> These are big changes.
> 
> Stable it is *not*.

The "stability" I'm talking about, means somewhat like "running without
crashing or other problems". The "stability" you're talking about 
means, I think, "retaining the user interface and features".

> > The KDE which I'm talking about, is a collaboration of the Plasma
> > Desktop and the applications. For instance the desktop search would
> > be
> > great, but I've never got it to work for me.
> 
> People collaborate, not software.

People collaborate to build software that collaborates.  :-)

> 
> I only use desktop search on macOS, because I find on other platforms
> it saps performance.
> 
> If you like KDE but have problems with the KDE apps, replace the
> apps.
> 
> E.g. a colleague of mine uses KDE but Thunderbird for
> email/contacts/diary, Firefox and Chrome browsers, different editors,
> etc. She does not use many of the KDE apps at all.
> 
> It's all separate. You can use GNOME apps on a KDE desktop, or KDE
> apps on the GNOME desktop.
> 
> It does take a lot more disk space, though.

In the age of Terabyte-harddisks?


> I prefer to keep my system relatively simple, so I favour
> lighter-weight tools such as Geany than the big GNOME tools with
> their
> tons of GNOME libraries.
> 
> > I want integration with the overall desktop.
> 
> Try it. Different desktops' apps integrate just fine.
> 
> > I have to concede that I don't really know what kinds of magic KDE
> > can
> > do, when it actually works. That's because it never worked for me.
> 
> Then why have you been, in your own words, using it for so long?

Good question. It *does* work to some degree, most of the time. And
what you get to see is really good, when it runs like it should. And
there is always the hope that the KDE project will recover from its
KDE4 disaster, and become productive again. And recover from the broken
Akonadi (KDEPIM) and baloo parts. 

Also there is a strong sense of loyalty towards KDE, which I have
abandoned by now.

> > But
> > using a stripped down KDE, with core applications replaced, won't
> > unleash KDE's full potentional. That's what I think.
> 
> It absolutely can and does. You get KDE's menus, window management,
> file manager if you want, but other productivity apps.
> 
> The stories about integration are mostly marketing.
> 
> Public Enemy said it best:  "Don't believe the hype."
> 
> > Who says that Gnome 3 is unstable?
> 
> Me, based on extensive testing. Also see my links above.
> 
> > Who says that KDE 5 is mature
> > (except for you)?  WTF?
> 
> Me, as I have been using it and testing it since 1998.
> 
> > > You realise this is the opposite of stable and reliable, right?
> > 
> > No, I don't. AFAIK the half-year Gnome releases are meant to be
> > tested
> > and stable.
> 
> Somewhat. Not much in Linux is stable.
> 
> Anything  which releases according to a calendar, and not when it
> works, is not going to be as stable as something which is only
> released as and when it passes testing and not before.
> 
> > You also could share it between short-term+KDE and short-
> > term+Gnome. No
> > dual boot required. I'm not particulary keen (any longer) on having
> > an
> > LTS release.
> 
> And yet you keep saying you want stability.
> 
> Do you not see the contradiction here?

Does that mean that LTS releases are more thoroughly tested and
debugged than normal releases? I thought that what makes an LTS version
is just the longer support with security updates and backports.

> > I don't agree with everything you wrote, but you still got me
> > wondering.
> 
> Well, good!
> 
> > I think I'll stay on Kubuntu 18.04+Gnome for a few months,
> > in order to get to know Gnome better.
> 
> Sounds fair. Also do try Xfce.
> 
> And if you want something minimal that works with Qt apps and themes,
> try LXQt. But it's very new and immature yet. I find it works but not
> well.


Happy hacking,
Volker