UEFI and Ubuntu Linux

Tue Jan 30 16:00:33 UTC 2018

On 29/01/2018, Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 27 January 2018 at 08:32, Bret Busby <bret.busby at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> In performing a system update on this one (a computer that has UEFI,
>> which is bypassed to run Linux)
>
> You can't "bypass" UEFI.
>
> It's the system firmware and it boots the computer. You have it or you
> don't and you can't turn it off.
>
> The main Linux-related option is SecureBoot. This requires a
> cryptographically-signed OS boot loader.
>
> There are 2 options:
>
> * use a distro that has a signed bootloader and can boot in Secure Boot
> mode.
>
> * turn Secure Boot off, and ignore errors in Windows, or tolerate
> Windows possibly not booting any more.
>
>> When I first installed Linux on this computer (it took me about two
>> years to get Linux properly running on this computer, due to three
>> separate system components, and with the infamous change from GNOME2
>> to GNOME3, designed to drive people away from GNOME, to MATE)
>
> Heh. I sympathise but that was not the reason! :-)
>
> My theory for the _real_ reason is laid out here:
>
> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/06/03/thank_microsoft_for_linux_desktop_fail/
>
> However I have taken this to the GNOME 3 team leads and they adamantly
> deny it. The reasons they claim, though, make no sense to m.e
>
>>  DragonflyBSD was the only other non-MS operating system that
>> had a driver for the CPU (Haskell architecture), but, it did not, and,
>> still does not, have a driver for the graphics (for which, Ubuntu uses
>> nouveau), and, when I posted a query on the DragonflyBSD list,
>> recently, asking whether the recently released version of the OS now
>> had drivers for the graphics, the response was mostly (and, most
>> loudly), of the nature  "DragonflyBSD has a pretty set of wings - who
>> cares whether it works - we are not interested in a working OS!".
>
> Dragonfly BSD is an experimental OS. It is not really intended for
> general-purpose desktop use, yet or possibly ever.
>
> But you should not need a "driver" for a CPU.
>
>> In getting non-MS operating systems installed on this machine, I had
>> to go through a procedure to bypass the UEFI,
>
> Can you give some details of this?
>
>> so Win8 is installed in
>> a UEFI compartment,
>
> Do you mean a partition?
>
>> which never gets accessed, and takes up about
>> 250GB of the HDD, due to unmovable components,
>
> That seems extremely large.
>
> I have also published a guide on how to clean up a lot of Windows'
> clutter. It's here:
>
> https://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/06/23/reg_linux_guide_2/
>
> I'd add:
>
> * turn off System Recovery (Google for how)
> * uninstall anything non-essential & as many apps as possible
> * defragment the Windows drive, possibly in Safe mode for best results
> * reboot and do it again in normal mode
>
>
>> 1.  Ubuntu Linux (including UbuntuMATE) from 16.04 onward (especially,
>> for when it is released, 18.04), can be installed directly into the
>> UEFI compartment, and not need to use the Legacy BIOS compartment,
>> and, thence,
>
> I do not understand your terminology.
>
> Ubuntu does now understand UEFI and can install & run on UEFI computers.
>
> The main limitation is that you cannot dual-boot with another copy of
> Ubuntu or with Mint.
>
>> 2. Performing a new install of Ubuntu Linux (including UbuntuMATE)
>> from 16.04 onward (especially, for when it is released, 18.04), can
>> replace - meaning eliminating and replacing - factory installed
>> installations of MS Windows, that are installed via UEFI?
>
> If you wish, yes.
>
>
>
> --
> Liam Proven • Profile: https://about.me/liamproven
> Email: lproven at cix.co.uk • Google Mail/Hangouts/Plus: lproven at gmail.com
> Twitter/Facebook/Flickr: lproven • Skype/LinkedIn: liamproven
> UK: +44 7939-087884 • ČR (+ WhatsApp/Telegram/Signal): +420 702 829 053
>

Please read the message below, and, if more detail is wanted, please
search the Debian User list archive, using the string "legacy bios" -
I found the message below, searching my gmail archived messages, for
that string, but gmail search resulat will not go further back than
the first 100 messages (for me).

I note that it is now, at least a couple of years, since I booted into
the UEFI compartment. It appears to have been a heap of ......

-- 

Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia

..............

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
 Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
 "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
 A Trilogy In Four Parts",
 written by Douglas Adams,
 published by Pan Books, 1992

....................................................

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Bret Busby <bret.busby at gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 2015 23:33:29 +0800
Subject: Re: anyone booting debian with secure boot enabled? And/or
from GPT partitions?
To: debian-user <debian-user at lists.debian.org>

On 15/07/2015, Bret Busby <bret.busby at gmail.com> wrote:
> On 15/07/2015, Joel Rees <joel.rees at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Jul 15, 2015 at 7:54 PM, Bret Busby <bret.busby at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 15/07/2015, Joel Rees <joel.rees at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Last I heard, debian was not participating in any of the initiatives
>>>> to get officially microsoft-signed signatures for kernels. I've been
>>>> out of the community for a few months, so I haven't kept up with this,
>>>> but quick searches don't reveal a change in policy.
>>>>
>>>> (And I am definitely not arguing for a change in policy, for anyone
>>>> who might misread me.)
>>>>
>>>> I have a netbook that allows secure boot to be disabled. As long as I
>>>> don't need to boot MSWindows, I just disable secure boot. (I don't
>>>> perceive any real advantage in Microsoft's implementation, anyway.)
>>>>
>>>> But I have some work coming up that requires dual-booting MSWindows,
>>>> and I also might want to use debian (rather than Ubuntu or Fedora) as
>>>> a host for developing for Android.
>>>>
>>>> (I am able to boot openbsd from an outboard USB3 drive and keep it
>>>> running long enough to build a snapshot release. That's roughly a day,
>>>> plus or minus a few hours. So I have one good option. But I'd really
>>>> prefer not to spend too much time running the OS itself from an
>>>> outboard device whose connection can slip or get noisy from oxidation
>>>> so easily.)
>>>>
>>>> So, I'd like to ask those who for whatever reason dual-boot debian
>>>> with MSWindows on a modern MSW8/10 compliant box, what do you do about
>>>> keys?
>>>>
>>>> And I'm also interested in war stories relative to (dual) booting from
>>>> GPT partitions.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I suggest that you search the archives regarding this - I believe that
>>> it has been extensively discussed, this year.
>>
>> Well, I have read as recently as the May thread, "laptops, uefi,
>> secure boot and debian":
>>
>>     http://marc.info/?t=143236419200001&r=2&w=2
>>
>> I was kind of hoping to hear from someone who has used the "shim" that
>> has been mentioned on occasion.
>>
>> In other words, I have heard noises as if the linux foundation has
>> succeeded in setting up signed boot loader that passes control on to a
>> Linux kernel of choice, and I'm interested in what people who have
>> used it have to say. I don't see anything like that in the archives.
>>
>>> On this computer, I have MSWin8 installed via UEFI, and Debian 6 and 7
>>> and Ubuntu 12.04 and 14.04 installed via Legacy BIOS. on a GPT system.
>>> Each has booted without significant problems, the Linux installations
>>> booting using GRUB.
>>
>> Okay, so if you are saying, "No bumps relative to GPT and some version
>> of grub, that would be a datapoint of the type I'm looking for.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>
> Regarding your desire to be able to able to boot into either MS
> Windows 8.x or Linux, with the UEFI/GPT system, as per the messages
> that I previously posted to the list, regarding how I got my system
> working, it is a matter of going into the System Setup utility during
> the system bootup (this used to be referred to, as "going into BIOS
> when booting", but it is now a different level, as this involves
> selecting whether to boot using BIOS), and, if you want to boot into
> MS Windows, selecting the UEFI boot option, and, to boot into Linux,
> using the Legacy (BIOS) boot option, and, if you select the UEFI boot
> option, it should then boot directly into MS Win8.x (if that is the
> only OS that you have installed into the UEFI environment), and,l if
> you select the Legacy (BIOS) option, it should bring up the bootloader
> used in the Linux installation (eg, GRUB, if GRUB was used), thence
> allowing the system to boot into whichever Linux version you have
> installed and choose to boot (in my case, there are the four different
> Linux versions, on this system; as previously mentioned, Debian 6 and
> 7, and Ubuntu 12.04 and 14.04), or any other OS that you might have
> chosen to install within the Legacy (BIOS) environment (I am
> considering installing DragonflyBSD, as mentioned elsewhere.
>
> In this context, the procedure to boot into Legacy (BIOS) should be
> followed, to install Linux into the Legacy (BIOS) envrionment.
>
> As is shown, this involves two levels of bootloaders; the first being
> the choice of booting into the UEFI environment or the Legacy (BIOS)
> environment, and the second, using the OS bootloader in the applicable
> environment; in UEFI/MS Windows, the Windows bootloader, and, in the
> Legacy (BIOS) environment, whichever OS bootloader (GRUB, etc) is
> installed in that environment.
>
> This process applies to the particular computer that I am using at the
> moment; an Acer V3-772G, which, as previously mentioned on the mailing
> list, whilst the System Setup utility shows that it should have a
> third available environment; the Dual environment, to allow BIOS based
> operating systems to boot within the UEFI environment, it does not
> have that option (due to the faulty system software that is part of
> the computer system), and so has only the two options of the UEFI
> environment or the Legacy (BIOS) environment.
>
> Another computer system may have system software that functions
> properly, and, if the particluar computer system is supposed to allow
> it, allows the Dual option, so the process may be different, on a
> computer system that works properly.
>
> This Acer computer does not quite work properly, but, that is an Acer
> thing.
>

Oh, and one important thing that I should point out, in case it is not
immediately obvious; the Linux versions that are mentioned; Ubuntu
12.04 and 14.04, and, Debian 6 and 7, are the latest Linux versions of
which I have any experience; I have no experience of Debian 8.

Thus, it is possible, that none of this applies to Debian 8. Of that
(of both the operating system Debian 8, and, thence, whether any of
the above applies to Debian 8), I have no knowledge.

-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..............

"So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means."
- Deep Thought,
 Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
 "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
 A Trilogy In Four Parts",
 written by Douglas Adams,
 published by Pan Books, 1992

....................................................
....................................................