Re: (Slightly off topic) Surprised ZOOM H4n user…

[Johnny Rosenberg]

2013/3/17 Joep L. Blom <jlblom at neuroweave.nl>:
> On 16/03/13 14:20, Johnny Rosenberg wrote:
>>
>> This is not a question really, I just wanted to share this with
>> whoever who might be interested.
>>
>> The ZOOM H4n is a handy 4-channel audio recorder with two built in
>> microphones and two combined balanced XLR/TRS inputs with phantom
>> power, 48 or 24 V. It's a great piece of device, actually, at least
>> for its price. There are smaller devices out there and there are
>> better ones as well, but this was the combination that made me
>> actually buy it…
>>
>> Anyway, I use it when recording acoustic instruments and things like
>> that, then I move the audio files (in WAV format) to my main recording
>> device via my laptop. So it obviously has a USB connector, and when
>> connected to a PC it behaves like a USB stick. That's one of its two
>> modes. The other one is the audio interface mode, which requires a
>> driver of some kind.
>>
>> A quick look at http://www.zoom.co.jp/downloads/h4n/software/ makes it
>> pretty clear that operating systems other than Windows are not
>> supported, so I never even tried this mode. Until yesterday…
>>
>> So I plugged it in, only for curiosity, to see if there will be any
>> interesting error messages or something…
>>
>> H4n asked me, as usual, the following:
>> STORAGE →
>> AUDIO I/F →
>>
>> There's a ”clickable” scrolling wheel on the right side of the unit,
>> so clicking a line that ends with a → brings up more options for that
>> selection.
>>
>> For the first time ever, I went for the AUDIO I/F thing.
>> Next selection:
>> FREQUENCY (44.1 or 48.0 kHz)
>> CONNECT →
>>
>> 44.1 kHz was pre-selected so CONNECT was my choice.
>> ”Please wait”
>>
>> After a little more than a second, I guess, it has connected. The
>> display shows a header (”USB AUDIO I/F”) and a L/R level meter with a
>> -48 – ±0 dB scale.
>>
>> I open Audacity to try it out.
>> To the right of the microphone symbol in the tool bar in Audacity,
>> there is an input selection thing and when I click it I see a few new
>> entries there, that I never saw before, such as ”H4: USB Audio (hw:
>> 1,0): Line:0”. There are seven of them, named in a similar way
>> (another one is ”H4: USB Audio (hw: 1,0): Aux:0” and so on).
>>
>> So, time to record some rubbish! Hit the record button and start
>> speaking or making any kind of noise. The audio curves are drawn and
>> things look well. Time to stop, go back and listen.
>>
>> The first thing I notice is that the audio is played back through my
>> H4n, which has a poor built-in speaker that is activated if there are
>> no head phones connected. I also notice that the sound is distorted.
>> Okay, I think, so maybe this device is not supported after all. But
>> there was sound, at least.
>>
>> But after a short debugging session I find that the H4n internal
>> effect processor is turned on featuring a guitar amplifier simulator
>> effect. I turn it off and the distortion disappears!
>>
>> So I have had this unit for several years now without realising that I
>> can use it as an audio interface, even though I don't have Windows!
>> And what's better, I didn't have to install anything! I was very
>> surprised, I must say. I'm impressed!
>>
>> Is this unit supported by the kernel or did I probably install
>> something else some time (for a different purpose) that supports the
>> unit?
>>
>> Another thing that is nice with this unit is how to perform updates of
>> its firmware. I also have a 2-channel unit, Olympus LS-10, which is
>> great, but that unit need Windows or MacOS X for updates (and it
>> doesn't work through Wine, or didn't work when I tried last time). The
>> ZOOM however, doesn't need anything but a file that can be downloaded
>> from the page I referred to earlier in this post. Just download it,
>> connect your H4n to a USB port on your PC, select STORAGE on the H4n.
>> Now put the file in the root directory of the SD card in your H4n
>> (/media/H4N_SD), disconnect it and shut it down. You can, of course,
>> also just put the SD card in your PC, but I think USB is more
>> convenient in this case.
>>
>> Start up the H4n again, holding two buttons of the H4n down (I don't
>> remember which ones, but it's in the manual) during the startup
>> process, and the H4n will update itself. Make sure the batteries are
>> good or, even better, use the included AC adapter, because you don't
>> want the batteries to die during an update…
>>
>> Well, that's just about it. I am now an even happier H4n user than I
>> was before, thanks to this unintended (i suppose) Linux support. It's
>> perhaps the other way around; H4n is supported by Linux rather than
>> Linux is supported by H4n…
>>
>> So I am very happy with this piece of device, except for one minor
>> thing: It supports 24-bit audio, but NOT in multi track mode, which is
>> the only mode I need and use… There is a device out there that
>> supports this; the Tascam DR-40 seems to support 24-bit recording in
>> any mode, but it's not available in any local store where I live
>> (Sweden), where I've seen so far, so I don't have one yet… Recording
>> in 16-bit is okay though, since most things I record with this unit is
>> background stuff in the final production anyway, ending up at maybe
>> -30 – -20 dB or something, but still, 8 more bits wouldn't hurt…
>>
>>
>>
>> Johnny Rosenberg
>>
> Johnny,
> I reply off-list as I think it is not of much interest to most of the other
> users of this list but it is very interesting for me!

I think you failed; it looks like you actually replied to the list… :P

> I know the Zoom H4 as several members of the big band, I played in, used it
> for recording rehearsals and found it very handy.
> I have a ZOOM R16, the big brother of your H4. I use it -luxury - to record
> a.o. 2 piano's as I compose and arrange pieces for that combination and
> perform - more or less - regularly with another pianist. I find the
> possibilities phenomenal and the quality of the build-in microphones
> exceptional. I record also sometimes a small combo and 8 channels is more
> than sufficient.I have recorded some of the big band rehearsals with the 2
> build-in microphones and that was quite good. I even have recorded some
> performances with it and even that was passable (I didn't connect it to the
> PA as that was too much hassle).
>
> I'm very interested in the possibilities of updating using Linux as my only
> connection between the 2 is that I take the SD-card  - what is the recording
> medium - and copy it to my hard-disk and then use Audacity to process it (I
> hope one day I can use Ardour but for now that is too complicated for a
> simple retired neuroscientist-now-musician).
>
> I don't understand your remark about 24-bit in multitrack mode.

The H4n has three recording modes:
Stereo mode – pick two of the microphones and make a stereo recording
to channel L and R.
4-channel mode – record with all microphones at the same time, one for
each channel.
MTR mode – Record and playback one or more tracks simultaneously.
Maybe you loaded a stereo WAV file and assigned it to channel 1–2 and
you want to record something to channel 3 while listening to channel
1–2. In this mode you can not associate a 24-bit WAV to any channel,
only 16 bits is allowed. And the WAV files you record are 16 bit,
there is no way to change that in this mode. I am not sure I would
have bought it if I knew that, but I did and I don't regret it anyway.

I use the MTR for maybe 95 % of everything I do.
Here's how I usually work:
I record most of the instruments on a Roland VS-2480 –
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Aug02/articles/vs2480v2.asp

That is a rather huge unit and its built in fan is pretty loud, so
when I need to record something outdoors or somewhere where the Roland
VS-2480 is just too big, or something acoustic at home and I don't
want that fan noise in my recordings, I export a 2 channel mix to WAV
via an external SCSI CD writer, load it to my PC (with Ubuntu 12.04)
and copy it to the H4n from there. Before I do that I need to make
sure they are 16 bit and not 24, which is the default mode for the
Roland VS-2480.
Then I record some additional stuff on the H4n, let's say acoustic
guitars. When done with that I copy the new WAV files to the PC and
burn a CD-R(W) with all the new files, and then import the WAV files
to the Roland VS-2480. Fortunately the Roland VS-2480 is able to
convert 16 bits to 24 bits automatically without even asking, but the
real resolution of these tracks is still 16 bits, of course. Now, in
this example, a couple of acoustic rhythm guitars, I will probably
keep them low in volume anyway, so 16 bits is probably good enough,
but I am maybe some kind of perfectionist in some aspects, so even if
I can't hear the difference, it's annoying enough to know that it's
there… :P
And sometimes I play lead on an acoustic guitar and that track is
probably going to dominate the mix. On the other hand, there are other
problems with tracks like that, mostly acoustic problems since I
record most of my stuff at home, so 16 vs 24 bits is not the main
problem, but still… :D

Johnny Rosenberg



> The R16 has
> 2 times 8 channels 24-bit which can be used alternatively and you can record
> 8 tracks stereo simultaneously. I use 4 tracks mono when I record the
> piano's as I want to work on each piano track separately. I think you could
> record 16 tracks simultaneously if you put 2 microphones on one stereo-track
> but I don't know if that is possible (e.g. 2 trumpets, or 2 saxophones on 1
> stereo-channel).

If you have 16 inputs, I bet it's a good chance that you can record 16
tracks simultaneously.
The Roland VS-2480 has a lot of inputs: 16 balanced TRS, 8 XLR with
phantom power (you can select on or off for each input), one optical
and one coaxial S/PDIF and two R-BUS connectors of 8 digital inputs
each. Still the maximum channels to record at the same time is 16,
depending on the selected recording mode. Worst case is 8 channels at
fs ≥ 64 kHz in lossless mode. The unit was released in 2001 and its
processor (I think it's some kind of a RISC processor) is just not
fast enough for more channels than that.

I usually use the default mode, which is 24 bits at 44.1 kHz in ”MTP”
mode, which means that a slightly lossy algorithm is used. I have done
some tests and I found the results surprisingly good. It allows me to
record 16 channels simultaneously and playback all the 24 channels,
which I need i most cases. When recording drums I usually use 9
channels, which means that I use all the 8 XLR inputs and make sure
that the ninth channel doesn't need phantom power, since the balanced
TRS inputs doesn't support that. If there are more musicians
available, for example a bass player, I use to record them as well,
but if someone makes a mistake I let them correct that later, as long
as the drums are OK. It's harder to play drums to a bass track than
the other way around…



Johnny Rosenberg

> Joep
>
>
>
>
>
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