Another rant of mine on ubu-users

[Cybe R. Wizard]

As the bikeshed is a public mailing list I don't feel as if it is
wrong to Cc: this to the ubuntu-users list as it is concerning
'technical support."  therefore, I /am/ Cc:ing it back there, too.

On Thu, 2 Feb 2012 16:38:24 +0000
Avi Greenbury <lists at avi.co> wrote:

> Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> > Where the heck are the 'moderators' when people top post and send in
> > HTML, both of which are /against/ not only the spirit but also the
> > very letter of the CoC? 
> 
> The code of conduct mentions neither HTML nor top posting.

I beg your pardon; I referenced the mailing list guidelines, not the
CofC.  My bad.  I do, though, see that you understood my intent if not
my actual wording.  Thanks  for that.
> 
> The list guidelines are guidelines, not rules.

Then why bother yourselves with OT or with any of it at all?
Ubuntu-users got on just fine for years without active moderation.  Now
you tell me that moderation isn't really needed?  ...so soon after
beginning active moderation?  Strange, isn't it?

To me, is seems not just strange, but pretty disingenuous.
> 
> > It is well and good to piss and moan about off-topic posts, but each
> > and every thing that violates the CoC is just as important as
> > off-topic posting, yet I have /NEVER/ seen moderators doing /ONE
> > SINGLE THING/ about these gross, continuous and egregious
> > violations.
> 
> That's because they're not violations.

It depends upon your definition.  If it invites moderation it is a
violation of /something/ and still is a double standard if one
'guideline' is moderated and another is not.
>  
> > Is that an edict from On High; that you only berate and castigate
> > off-topic posts?
> 
> There are no edicts from on high.

Do you mean that, "there is no cabal?"    ;-]
> 
> > C'mon, you guys, do your real job or just quit doing anything at
> > all.
> 
> Our 'real job' is to respond to what the userbase want. Generally,
> when people complain, it's about off-topic threads rather than
> top-posting or HTML mail.

I was given to understand that moderation was to enforce the 'rules'
that aren't really rules, but only guidelines.  Must I really delve
into the archives to back this up?  I'm sure that you remember the
discussions on-list.  If one, then the other.
> 
> I'm intrigued, though, I've never noticed an HTML email to the list
> and I use claws, too. What have you done to it to make these mails so
> hard to read?

I see by the message pane right hand sidebar that they are HTML.  It
isn't a case of /my/ not being able to read them.  It is a case of:

"Avoid sending emails in HTML format, if possible. (and it is always
possible) Some people may find it more difficult to read or reply to
these emails. Also, HTML email takes up more space, so people with
restricted Internet access will be happier to receive plain text
emails."
http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community/mailinglists
> 
> > Any other way is just unfair.
> 
> No. We'll always prioritise, and we'll always get those priorities
> wrong in some people's opinions. We'll also, generally, be
> mildly inconsistent because we're not all the same person.

I'm not asking that you do this because it is my opinion that  you
should.  I ask it because to do otherwise is plainly not fair in view
of the guidelines in
(http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community/mailinglists) Ubuntu's own
words.
> 
> > I've received email confirmation from a busy moderator (thanks for
> > taking the time out to care) that a discussion concerning that topic
> > (rant) is currently going on.  Will anything change?  Will it help?
> 
> It's not likely to. The current consensus is that we'll mention it to
> users if we're replying to the post and it's particularly egregious,
> as we might for bottom posted mail that's not snipped, but that's how
> it was before. Like I say, nobody else seems to have minded,

You mean that no one else has complained/mentioned it.  That isn't too
difficult to understand because, if it isn't on topic, one might
receive moderation.  In other words, many may fear reprisal.
> 
> > Am I just pissing into the wind?
> 
> Yes.
> 
Ah, well, I'm used to a damp face by now.

Cybe R. Wizard
-- 
Strength through Unity.
Unity through faith.
	Adam Sutler