OT: Coin and Paper Currency [WAS:My request to ubuntu developer team]

Mon Nov 21 21:05:41 UTC 2011

On Mon, Nov 21, 2011 at 5:07 AM, Liam Proven <lproven at gmail.com> wrote:

> On 21 November 2011 04:45, Eric Morey <eric at glodime.com> wrote:
> > On Mon, 2011-11-21 at 02:28 +0000, Liam Proven wrote:
> >> On 20 November 2011 23:20, Eric Morey <eric at glodime.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Easy, just do what Americans do; use the paper notes for your
> >> > transactions; don't bother counting the coins when you get change;
> throw
> >> > your coins in a jar until you visit the bank with free coin counting
> >> > machines. (You will occasionally get some Canadian coins and lose a
> bit
> >> > from inaccuracies in coin machines but you gain so much piece of
> mind.)
> >>
> >> Tell me that again when the credit crunch comes and bites /your/ ass
> >> as it has done many of those of us here in Europe.
> >>
> >> I always pay with the exact money, because I don't have enough of the
> >> stuff to just toss it in a jar on the shelf. Money is precious.
> >> Ignoring small denominations is foolish and wasteful.
> >>
> >
> > Relax. It is just a suggestion.
>
> Felt like a dig to me, I have to tell you. "Just give him a note,
> don't sweat the fiddly small change."
>
> > It is also a reason dollar coins that
> > are minted aren't widely used except in special situations, like
> > casinos.
>
>
Actually, the casinos all use specially minted tokens.  The current
generation of machines not only accept coins and currency but are capable
of accepting and printing vouchers as well.  The token/voucher system cuts
down on the amount of liquid cash that must be delt with and since the
tokens are only usable within that casino it keeps the "marks" captive
until the house gets all of their cash.

> [Citation needed] What evidence have you got to support this assertion?
>
> >> >> It is ripe for a complete redesign. It's easy - in Britain we do this
> >> >> every decade or so. It's not traumatic or difficult at all.
> >> >
> >> > More Americans use cash than their UK counterparts due to deep seeded
> >> > distrust of authorities, banks, and technology in large portions of
> the
> >> > USA population.
> >>
> >> [Citation needed]
> >>
> >
> > Really? You are the one suggesting the the USA make a non-trivial change
> > to their physical currency and related infrastructure.
>
> Yep.
>
>

Can't be done "overnight" in the USA.  Can't even be done in a month here.
I ran a vending machine company for several years and the changeover in
currency validating equipment is an expensive process both in terms of
labor hours and the equipment itself.  The validators all have to be sent
to a depot level facility for rework, requiring a large inventory of very
expensive spares to make the changeover work.
Given the amount of automated sales here it is a significant cost
consideration.

I have watched several countries change their entire currency, and
> although there was lots of behind-the-scenes planning, it actually
> happened literally overnight on 1 Jan 2002.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro#Introduction_of_the_euro
>
> > Notice that I
> > didn't respond with [Citation needed] to your claims of "in Britain we
> > do this every decade or so. It's not traumatic or difficult at all."
> > When was the last time the UK converted a denomination of paper notes to
> > coins or changed their nomenclature?
>
> Introduction of the pound coin, 1983.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_coin
>
> The £20 note changed at the end of June:
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10453756
>
> £50 note, this month:
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15539934
>
> The £10 was last changed in 2000:
> http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publications/news/2000/090.htm
>
> In other words, they don't do them all at the same time. But it can be
> done and it was done at decimalisation, I believe.
>
> It is simply not a big problem. Everyone else in the world copes; it's
> just the US that is foolish and hidebound and unfairly discriminates
> against people with visual disabilities.
>
> > Was the Euro conversion "not
> > difficult at all" in terms of direct costs of converting the physical
> > currency?
>
> Not AFAIK, but I don't live in the Eurozone. Ask Amedee.
>
> >> That sounds like a statement of someone unfamiliar with European
> >> financial practices, TBH. I don't know if you are or not, but you're
> >> manifestly unfamiliar with how /I/ and many of those I know best live
> >> and work. It does not reflect the reality of the Europe I've lived in
> >> for 3/4 of my life.
> >
> > Since you are curious, my experience working in the corporate credit
> > department of a large international lender has given me access to data
> > that indicated the USA's cash economy is a larger portion of of the
> > overall economy than the UK. Though the gap was closing when I last saw
> > relevant figures. (USA's cash economy is shrinking proportionately over
> > time).
>
> All right, conceded.
>
> >> Living as much as possible in the cash economy means The Man can't
> >> trace you so easily, too. It's therefore desirable for those much
> >> concerned with privacy. I am not so inclined, but many are.
> >
> > European privacy laws are possibly a source of confidence that causes
> > the persistence of the higher rate of adoption of electronic payment
> > methods in the UK compared to the USA.
>
> Possibly. TBH I don't know many people actually that concerned about
> this. I know lots of idiots who, for instance, sign up for this list
> with false names in the belief that this enhances their entirely
> illusory privacy, but not who do /real/ stuff like refusing to use
> payment cards, electronic tickets etc.
>
> --
> Liam Proven • Info & profile: http://www.google.com/profiles/lproven
> Email: lproven at cix.co.uk • GMail/GoogleTalk/Orkut: lproven at gmail.com
> Tel: +44 20-8685-0498 • Cell: +44 7939-087884 • Fax: + 44 870-9151419
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>
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-- 

“If I had a dollar for every time that capitalism was blamed for the
problems caused by government, I’d be a fat filmmaker with a baseball
cap.”  - from a Facebook viral video
<http://linuxcounter.net/cert/544489.png>
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