A task-centric desktop...

[W. Scott Lockwood III]

>----Original Message-----
>From: ubuntu-users-bounces at lists.ubuntu.com
[mailto:ubuntu-users-bounces at lists.ubuntu.com] On Behalf Of Liam Proven
>Sent: Monday, November 21, 2011 7:57 AM
>To: Ubuntu user technical support, not for general discussions
>Subject: Re: A task-centric desktop...
>
>>On 21 November 2011 12:58, vladinator at gmail.com <vladinator at gmail.com>
wrote:
>> Paying attention to, and not being dismissive of, the needs and 
>> feedback of the community is the most important part of _any_ Distro. 
>> You either get that, or you quickly plummet from your position of 
>> prominence. Which is exactly what we are now seeing.

>Please *top* quote on the list.

When replying from my phone, I don't have a choice. When I do have a choice,
I will quote as I like.

>I don't think Ubuntu /is/ being unresponsive.

And I disagree.

>Firstly, I think a lot of people are happily using Unity and not
complaining. It's the ones who are whinging who are shouting and
>being noticeable. Those using it are not shouting about it.

Have you signed the Ubuntu code of conduct? Judging from the fact that you
are accusing others of "whinging" and "shouting" I'm guessing not.

> Secondly, and this is the thing EVERYONE seems to be missing:
> UBUNTU *HAD* TO CHANGE THE DESKTOP.
> It had NO CHOICE.

False. Or, at best, citation needed. Furthermore, there is plenty of
evidence that things are changing direction toward competing in the embedded
market, and that as of 12.04 they will once again start paying attention to
the needs of their 'power users'. Sorry, I'm not waiting that long.

> Firstly, GNOME 2 is dead. Gone. Fuggedaboutdit. It is no more. It has
ceased to be. That is nothing to do with Ubuntu or Canonical; 
> blame the GNOME Project.

That software progressed from version 2 to version 3 is not, in and of
itself, an indication of the death of a product. I had no issue with the
transition from Firefox 2 to Firefox 3 for example. So, I don't see this as
even remotely relevant. 

> So Ubuntu /had/ to change to a new desktop.

False. They chose to do so in order to start competing in the embedded
market - things like tablets and phones. They pissed off a LOT of people by
doing so, as the mass migration (that you seem to be pretending isn't
happening) to things like MINT shows.

> Secondly, *why* did GNOME die? 

GNOME didn't die. They released a new version of their desktop.

>Well, in part, because Microsoft is threatening it. 

Yes, of course they are. They want people to use Windows.

>You may not realise how much GNOME steals from the Microsoft Windows
desktop - as does KDE, as does Xfce, as does LXDE - but it is a /lot./

There is very little there that they in turn didn't steal from Apple and
Xerox. You don't know very much about the history of GUI's do you? That
surprises me, because based on your LinkedIn profile, I'd guess that you're
only about 3 years older than I am.

> Compared to the non-Windows-influenced desktops (like ROX Desktop or
GNUstep, which you may never have seen because no distro uses them by
default),

Please don't make assumptions about what I have and haven't seen. I've been
at this a very long time. I remember when I (wrongly) thought that Linux was
the shiny new toy that people would play with, but that real work would
still happen on *BSD. :-)

> *anything* with a taskbar and a hierarchical launch menu is a *direct
ripoff* of Windows and all that design is patented.

Which they in turn stole from others. Patents can (and should in this case)
be invalidated. There is a dearth of prior art out there to show that they
should never have been granted such a patent in the first place. B&N is
fighting them right now on that, for example.

Not that that has anything at all to do with my point.

There is nothing there that requires Canonical/Ubuntu to so publicly
disregard the wishes of the user base.

> Microsoft has patents over the Windows desktop design and GNOME & KDE
infringes some 235 of those patents.

So Mickysoft says. Can you name those patents? Have you done _any_ research
on this yourself, or are you just parroting things you've read on Slashdot?

> So the smart Linux vendors have 2 choices:

False.

> [1] Sign a pact with Microsoft to share software patents and not get sued
- e.g. SUSE, Xandros 
> [2] Or don't sign and change to a non-Windows-like desktop, ASAP - e.g.
Ubuntu, Fedora

[3] Fight.

> It was not a matter of choice. 

Everything is a choice. What you're talking about has absolutely no bearing
on the switch to Unity. That was another choice entirely - one to pursue the
embedded market.

> It was not a matter of listening to users or not. It is a matter of trying
to get out of a software patent trap PDQ.

False, I'm going to say, but to be clear, I'm not saying they shouldn't be
adverse to patent traps. I'm saying false because it was a matter of going
after money and not giving a damn what anyone else thought. Patents are an
afterthought at best.

> GNOME 3 does something different, unlike anything else. I don't like it
much myself but it works. I can use it if I must.

This is the first think you've said that has made any logical sense.

> Unity is more pleasant by far, 

An opinion that many more than you seem to think don't share.

> but it achieves that by being very like Mac OS X, from another litigious
company with lots of patents: Apple.

Then why did they do it? Oh right - because patents had _nothing_ to do with
the decision. Going after tablets and phones as a market did.

> I am not sure that is the best plan, but for now, I like the result.

I support your right to use Unity as a window manager. I also support my
right to vote with my feet for exactly the reasons I gave.

> But the Linux companies are backed into a corner, 

No, they are not. This is again, false. There are a LOT of choices, and I
wish many of them would make smarter ones - fighting Mickysoft is the only
good option in my opinion.

> and the options are, get into bed with Microsoft or change to a
non-Windows-like desktop without a taskbar and without a hierarchical app
menu.

False. There is a third option - invalidate Mickysoft's patents.

> And note that these are the 2 characteristics shared by GNOME 3 and Unity.

Here's one that isn't - the GNOME team takes feedback from the user
community, and doesn't disregard it.

> There are very good reasons for this, which all the stick-in-the-mud,
inflexible, learning-averse neophobes
> who are whining and complaining about "productive desktops" are completely
missing.

Again, I encourage you to read the Ubuntu code of conduct, and sign it.
You're not doing yourself any favors by calling people names who have been
doing this for a lot longer than most.


--
W. Scott Lockwood III