Natty 11.04 - nearly like 10.10!

Liam Proven lproven at
Sat Jul 2 09:53:20 UTC 2011

On 2 July 2011 04:26, Ric Moore <wayward4now at> wrote:
> On Fri, 2011-07-01 at 11:43 +0100, Liam Proven wrote:
>> On 1 July 2011 07:10, Ric Moore <wayward4now at> wrote:
>> > On Thu, 2011-06-30 at 20:53 +0100, Liam Proven wrote:
>> >> On 27 June 2011 09:41, Stephen Kuhn <yank.down.under at> wrote:
>> >> > On Mon, 2011-06-27 at 03:19 -0400, Ric Moore wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> > This gives you a strong aroma of neophobia & as such not someone I'd
>> >> >> > trust to run my systems, I \have to tell you.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Damn Stephen, there it is. You got told! I'd be weeping in my oatmeal.
>> >> >> And, you're King Cnut'ish as well. Damn... a public service announcement
>> >> >> from Liam over your personal preference for the old style gnome desktop.
>> >> >> Well, I wouldn't let you near my system either, I happen to prefer KDE3.
>> >> >> Oh hell, I'll have to go shoot myself now. :) Ric
>> >> >
>> >> > Well, if I constantly and consistently deliver something that, for
>> >> > nearly the past ten years, looks exactly the same, um, from a stupid
>> >> > end-user perspective, am I not doing what I promised in the beginning?
>> >> > Ha. Stick that in yer "progressive" pipe and smoke it! ;)
>> >>
>> >> I have no idea what you promised. If you promised consistency, then
>> >> the users should be on LTS releases & none of this is an issue.
>> >>
>> >> If you promised to help people run Ubuntu, then you are doing them a
>> >> grave disservice if you give them some hand-rolled custom setup that
>> >> is unlike anything else out there, because if you get run over by a
>> >> bus tomorrow, nobody else will be able to support it... And if they
>> >> install their own machines, or use someone else's, they will be lost
>> >> because it won't be like the standard system.
>> >>
>> >> This is a lesson I learned myself, over the same time in the same
>> >> business as you, and it was hard. You stick to the defaults unless you
>> >> have a *damned* good reason. "I don't like the new look" is *not* a
>> >> damned good reason, it's a lousy one.
>> >
>> > Or, maybe Stephen knows his customers preferences and delivers to them
>> > what they want, which makes it a damned good reason. Why are you
>> > slamming him?
>> >
>> > I haven't seen one single standard setup that comes ~close~ to suiting
>> > my needs yet and I always change it to suit me. If some group insisted
>> > on the old KDE StarTrek theme, so that their desktop looked like Spock's
>> > workstation, and wanted to pay me to set it up like that and maintain
>> > it, then Unity would scare the beejesus out of me, as it might interfere
>> > with my cash flow. I just don't get how you can make such a judgment
>> > call, without being privy to his business relationship and plans with
>> > his customers. Ric
>> You might  be right; certainly you're correct that I don't know. There
>> could be some specific special situation like this.
> That's my point, I had no clue either. But, there are no certainties,
> except life and death, in my book. I kept that notion firmly in my mind
> when dealing with my customers in the chemical biz. Each one had goals
> and sought results in common with everyone else, but each also had
> particular needs. And if I didn't seek to ensure that those needs were
> met, then someone else would ask the right questions and get MY business
> and eat MY lunch... heh, that got expensive. Later on I was third
> highest in the US for sales increase percentage over budget forecast.
> Then the bastards raised the forecast bar and wanted even more the next
> year, ensuring I didn't make the huge bonuses. :)
>> But, overall, I stand by  my points. I am tired of all the
>> Unity-bashing & I think a lot of it is knee-jerk reaction.
> I dunno, maybe knee-jerk reaction also has benefit. "First Impressions"
> typa thing? For many, Unity scored low on that. The KDE3 to KDE4 went
> that the same way. Me, I'm old as dirt, so I just waited, and stuck to
> 8.04 like a dusty door jam. Finally KDE added the traditional menu
> button back, I was happy and quit bitching when I leaped to 10.4.
> But for some poor outback maverick making a few quid off of a Women's
> Bridge Club computer email desktop/network support, to spend under the
> table on his bar tab with his blokes ~unseen by his wife~, getting
> handbagged by said ladies after he rolls out Unity on them would not be
> a pretty sight, and I'd be afraid too. I'd have a lot of explaining to
> do! It would be Bernie Sanders and Timothy Geithner time. :) Ric

OK, I have to give you that. I suspect it's somewhat the less likely
scenario, but you're right, Ric, it could be something like that. :¬)

Liam Proven • Info & profile:
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