no AppleTalk?

Liam Proven lproven at
Tue Jul 13 00:28:37 UTC 2010

On 13 July 2010 01:16, Jordon Bedwell <jordon at> wrote:
> On 7/12/2010 7:01 PM, Liam Proven wrote:
>> On 13 July 2010 00:09, Pete Gontier <pete at> wrote:
>>> AFP is arguably part of the AppleTalk protocol stack. Certainly everybody
>>> talked about it that way years ago before AFP started to run atop IP as well
>>> as DDP. Nowadays, as far as Mac OS is concerned, AFP runs only atop IP. If
>>> you still think of AFP as a layer of the AppleTalk protocol stack, then I
>>> suppose it's reasonable to say Mac OS still has AppleTalk support. But I've
>>> never heard anyone talk that way.
>> The usual distinction of nomenclature is that AppleTalk is the
>> wire-level protocol and AppleShare is the volume-sharing and
>> network-volume-mounting protocol.
>> Strictly, AppleTalk covers both LocalTalk (AppleTalk over RS423 serial
>> cabling) and EtherTalk (AppleTalk over Ethernet).
>> If I remember correctly, OS X 10.4 ("Tiger") stopped supporting
>> AppleShare over AppleTalk except for printing - volume connections
>> were AppleShare/IP only. OS X 10.5 ("Leopard") dropped even that and
>> is AppleShare/IP only.
> Which would probably explain a lack of support from the Linux community
> over the last couple of years for AppleTalk really for anything but IP.
> Does Windows no longer support AppleTalk in that manner? If so I'm
> wondering if you just couldn't feed it through that way.

Windows NT-family workstation editions never really usefully supported
AppleTalk or AppleShare.

Windows NT Server can. NT 3.x can be an AppleShare fileserver and
print server over AppleTalk and TCP/IP. IT even includes its own
PostScript rasterizer, based on TrueImage, a technology that was never
really used anywhere much else in the whole IT industry. I think one
Broither laser printer might have had a TrueImage renderer. Anyway, NT
Server 3.x can share even a dot-matrix printer with Macs; it lies to
the Macs, tells them it's a LaserWriter, receives PostScript and
renders it to a dot-raster which it outputs. Interestingly it can
/only/ do this for Mac clients - the functionality was not exposed to
Windows clients.

NT Server 4 does this too, I think.

Using file sharing, the 2 forks of Mac files, resource fork + data
fork, are stored in NTFS Streams, another seldom-used technology.
Ergo, only NTFS disks can be shared with Macs, not FAT volumes; PC
clients see a different view of the filesystem as they are blind to
Mac file metadata.

(This sounds like a minor technical detail, but it's not. OS X 10.4,
by default, mount Windows shares over CIFS, i.e., Samba; this means
they can't see the Mac metadata either, meaning that files saved onto
an NTFS volume over an AppleShare connection will appear corrupted if
accessed off the same volume over a Samba connection.)

Windows 2000 Server drops AppleTalk support for file sharing, I think;
only AppleShare/IP is supported. I've not really used Mac support on
W2Kx Server, though.

Windows Server 2003, I think, still has AppleShare IP.

Windows 2008 Server drops Mac support altogether; there is no
AppleTalk or AppleShare whatsoever. Same with 2008R2.

Liam Proven • Profile:
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