Non Ubuntu question

Karl F. Larsen klarsen1 at
Sun Feb 28 18:59:25 UTC 2010

J wrote, On 02/28/2010 11:41 AM:
> On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 12:19, Pastor JW<pastor_jw at>  wrote:
>> Not such a strange reply; it is like those insurance commercials, easy
>> even a cave man ...  Well, WUBI makes a Ubuntu installation so easy even a
>> windoze user can do it!!  ;)
>> A lot of Ubuntu users never used windoze but came from a Amiga or Mac or even
>> C=64s, all of which are a better working OS than windoze, and get tired of
>> all the time having to answer or even read windoze problems.  It is a serious
>> waste of time for a Ubuntu user so they sometime get testy.  It amounts here
>> to well over half the traffic and it really is not a windoze list contrary to
>> all appearances!!  This one however was done in a lot better way in that the
>> subject line told you in advance that it was NOT a Ubuntu question!!!  Kudos
>> to the OP!!
> First, let me say that the general ideal behind all the replies to
> this thread are spot on.  This is a Linux list, not a Windows list.
> Non-linux discussions are off topic, and in reality, even this
> discussion is not really on topic, as this is a tech support list,
> and, as the list name says "not for general discussions".
> However, the thought behind pretty much all the responses is horribly flawed.
> I've been using linux since the mid 90s.  When I was first installing,
> destroying, re-installing, and teaching myself how to use,
> troubleshoot, fix and modify linux distributions, I relied heavily on
> a community of people who were open to the fact that I came from the
> Windows world.  They understood that, accepted it, and helped me
> still.  What I find most disturbing on this list, and quite a few
> others, is this over-zealous righteousness that people tend to have.
> Using derogatory terms like lusers, windoze, winblows, etc, all you do
> is alienate the very people that this community should be embracing
> and welcoming.
> Look at it from an only tangentially connected analogy.
> How well do you think a Rape Crisis center would do, if the first
> thing that counselors did when a rape victim came through the door was
> to ask, "What did you do to deserve it?"
> Not very well...  and yes, that's a bit of an extreme comparison, but
> the ideal still stands.  Treating windows users as idiots, belittling
> them, making them feel somehow inferior does NOT engender good
> feelings towards Linux.  After all, why should they even bother with
> Ubuntu, Fedora, OpenSuSE, or any of the 800 other distributions, if
> their first experiences with this community is being treated as second
> class citizens, outcasts or worse?
> Ostracizing the very people that we, as a community WANT to welcome
> with open arms, teach them a better way, and make the world that much
> better is NOT a good way of going about things.
> Besides the fact, you'd be surprised how many of these people that
> vociferously decry the Windows OS as being, I believe the terms were
> "Pro-capitalist, war-inspired, anti-humanist" actually use other MS
> products without even thinking about it.
> This is not to excuse MS for their software practices, such as the
> restrictive licensing that we do not have in the F/OSS world, but even
> in that, it's not the person's fault.  The vast, vast majority of
> computer users in the world know and understand Windows, Office, Media
> Player, Internet Explorer and so forth.  We, as a community, are still
> comparatively small beans to the number of people who either have
> never heard of Linux, don't understand Linux or Open Source, or have
> heard of Linux and other Open Source projects.
> Look at the inroads Firefox has made.  Yes, FF is starting to really
> suffer from feature-creep, but look at how fast FF was adopted OUTSIDE
> the Linux world.  Why was that?  It was not because the Mozilla
> Foundation constantly told IE users that they were unworthy, stupid
> people.  Instead they took the positive approach of saying "IE is
> dangerous.  It's flaws could lead to your computer being taken over,
> infected with virii and your personal data being sent to parties with
> evil intentions.  Try Firefox instead.  It's faster, more secure, and
> safer for surfing the internet."
> And you know what?  It worked.  And let's not forget that Firefox
> comes from the Mozilla Foundation, which was started back in the 90s
> by Netscape (an entirely for profit company that did some of the same
> nasty things MS does) which is/was in turn owned by AOL, yet another
> "evil giant mega-corporation" in it's day.
> If you think Linux is better, and I think it is, then let Linux stand
> on it's own two feet.  Let it stand on it's stability, scalability,
> robustness, openness and freedom.
> Also, we may get tired of answering "windows questions" but the truth
> is, that's 90% of the market.  Instead of just dismissing outright, we
> should kindly, and compassionately point them to the far better
> choice.  Starting out with attacks and insults really does our cause
> no good at all, and simply pushes the potential new user to form the
> opinion that Linux users are just a bunch of asshats who think they
> are better than the rest of the world.
> For what it's worth, I use Windows.  I use Linux.  I make my living on
> and with Linux, and I've based my entire career on Linux and Open
> Source software.  But I still use Windows for certain things.
> 73 de Jeff, W4KDH

	Jeff be careful or the Linux group will strike you dead. My 
wife only runs Windows, and I spend a lot of time fixing here 
computer. I did load Ubuntu 9.04 but she can't use it.

73 Karl


	Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI
	Linux User
         Key ID = 3951B48D

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