Programming language for children

Knapp magick.crow at
Tue Jun 16 10:08:23 UTC 2009

On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 11:30 AM, Gilles Gravier<ggravier at> wrote:
> Hi!
> Knapp wrote:
>> On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 11:12 AM, Gilles Gravier<ggravier at> wrote:
>>> If you want a language that is simple, you could try Pascal. Good to
>>> teach the basics of programming, and good practices.
>>> If not, you have languages like LOGO which are very simple, and geared
>>> ONLY at teaching programming, but not programming real applications. You
>>> can do things like move sprites, draw lines...
>>> Then move on to Prolog and/or SmallTalk. :)
>>> Don't do BASIC. It teaches all the bad things you can imagine... :)
>> NO, NO, NO, all beginners should start with APL followed by a good
>> understanding of Forth.
> Sorry, I missed that one. Yes. Fully agree... And you probably need to
> get the special dedicated APL keyboard. :)
> That said... France created a special language LSE (Language Special
> pour l'Enseignement - Language designed for teaching)... Never was very
> successful.
> But really, have a look at LOGO :
> Gilles

As a kid, I was subjected to C64 basic, 6502 assembly, LOGO, Pilot,
Pascal, Forth and then C and Modulus 2.
My take as a kid.
Basic, slow, sort of stupid.
6502, really FAST and thus cool but why do you have to shift bits to multiply?
Pilot, stupid.
Cobalt, I don't like to type THAT MUCH.
LOGO, cool turtle but then what?
Pascal, like basic but with handcuffs.
Forth, are you nuts?
C really cool but why can't I get it for my C64?
Lisp, what a dumb name. Can someone please tell me how to read this ->
Modules 2, starting to look  a bit like star Trek but no one ever used it.

I invented my own psudo code having never heard of it before at the time.

A bit later, Prolog, really cool for writing Zork games but you can't
do graphics with it. :-(

C++, What the HECK is OOP? Why would I need that?

Some time later, OOP is cool but it really tends to clouds things up,
still it gives me god like powers so I will use it.

PHP, yawn, can't they make something that is not C or pascal?

Java, yawn again, cool network stuff. C but slower? Why? (THE language
to learn if you want a job in Germany and maybe else where.)

Visual Basic, Oooh, the dark side plus basic?? Must be invented by the
Devil. Cool IDE!!! Microsoft Access is the best software that I
have ever seen, to date. To bad it is not open source.

Perl, you are out to confuse me right? This guy must be an out of work
APL programmer.

JavaScript, yawn. Make it faster. You guys really could have done better here.

Back to Psudo code, It just developed out of a need for short hand,
come to find out later that they try and teach it to people, LOL. Poor
kids. Then I found Python, cool, it looks like my psudo code but why
does it have to run so slowly?

To this day the only languages that I have learned that make me sit up
and clap are, 6502 assembly, Prolog, C, OOP, Python. All the rest is
rehash. (lisp might be ok but never went deep enough, perhaps I should
say the same for LOGO)

Douglas E Knapp

Why do we live?

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