[Fwd: Re: [Bug 495391] [NEW] Not clear if CoC applies only to official Ubuntu Members or also to community in general]

[Cybe R. Wizard]

On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 17:28:24 +0100 (CET)
"Amedee Van Gasse (ub)" <amedee-ubuntu at amedee.be> wrote:

> I would like to share this with Cybe R. Wizard and all others who
> think that the CoC does not apply to them. I'm sorry, but Mr.
> Shuttleworth says that you are mistaken.

Actually I have questioned the CoC as applying to /anyone/, not just
me, from the /wording of the COC/, itself.  

When viewed in conjunction with the mailing list etiquette guidelines I
can see how it may be taken to mean anyone, not just Ubuntu-approved
Members of The Community, and I fully agree /and always have/ that
it /should/ apply. 

However, these two documents, one of which is necessary to the
full understanding of the other, are /not/ linked from the sign-up page
for the mailing list /at all/.  It is hard for me to understand how
anyone may be held responsible for aligning their conduct with two
separate documents /to which no reference exists/ on the page where one
signs up for that same mailing list.

Continues below:
> 
> ---------------------------- Original Message
> ---------------------------- Subject: Re: [Bug 495391] [NEW] Not
> clear if CoC applies only to official Ubuntu	Members or also
> to community in general From:    "Mark Shuttleworth"
> <mark at canonical.com> Date:    Tue, December 15, 2009 17:05
> To:      amedee-launchpad at amedee.be
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Launchpad Bug Tracker wrote:
> > 2) The CoC is inferred from the Mailing List Etiquette guidelines
> > and
> applies to anyone on the mailing lists as soon as they have made any
> contribution, even if it was only one answer to a question of a new
> user.
> >
> 
> The Code of Conduct is the standard we hold all participants and
> proponents and advocates of Ubuntu to. We'd prefer that if you want to
> wear an Ubuntu t-shirt, you hold yourself to that standard for
> discourse and collaboration. So it certainly applies to all
> correspondence on Ubuntu mailing lists, not just to those who have
> signed it and those who are Ubuntu members.
> 
> Mark
> 
I see the response from Mark and wish that it were, indeed, true,
but the obvious fact is that the user list is totally and completely
unmoderated.  If such were not the case there would /at the very least/
be some response to the call for removal of <some user>, pro or con.

Until such time as the 'facts' bear out the actual usage I remain
skeptical of any 'wishes' anyone, even Mr. Shuttleworth, may have about
the tone of the list.

In addition, if the CoC is, "inferred from mailing list... guidelines,"
it would be quite nice if those guidelines were at least linked from the
sign-up page, even if the page does not hold a signing /requirement/.
A link to the CoC would be nice, too, if we hope that users will use it
to guide their use.

As it is there is not the slightest indication on the sign-up page that
there even /exists/ a mailing list guideline page, much less a Code of
Conduct.

If we wish to hold users of the mailing list to these 'suggestions'
then it would behoove us to include the information /that these
guidelines even exist/ for those who wish to sign up.

Otherwise it is only a sad joke that anyone thinks that folks should
abide by them.

IOW, we need to say what we mean if we are to mean what we say.

Cybe R. Wizard
-- 
"If the words "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" don't
include the right to experiment with your own consciousness, then the
Declaration of Independence isn't worth the hemp it was written on."
-  Terence McKenna