[ubuntu-users] Double Trouble with GRUB

[Ted Hilts]

Andrew Farris wrote:
> First off, I'm going to warn you... a lot of people aren't going to be
> happy with you posting picture-attachments to this mailing list.
> text-based command outputs like you included would have been all that
> was necessary, though I understand you're intentions and applaud the
> effort. now...
>
> On Mon, 2009-08-24 at 16:21 -0600, Ted Hilts wrote:
> [snip]
>   
>> I don't want to mess Ubuntu up because most of the time it boots up to 
>> "/" (root system) and does not complain.  When it does not boot up 
>> properly it seems to be trying to boot on "hda".  Ubuntu seems to be 
>> booting from the "fstab" file definitions and not from GRUB.  I cannot 
>> figure any other explanation as there do not seem to be any references 
>> in GRUB.which reference "sd" hard drives..
>>     
>
> Quick lesson: Grub defines hard drives differently from the linux kernel
> does. this differnece is normal, though maybe confusing to someone who
> hasnt seen it before.  The conversion goes something like this:
>     In Grub:    In Ubuntu:
>     (hd0,0)     sda1
>     (hd0,1)     sda2
>     (hd1,0)     sdb1
>     (hd3,7)     sdd6
>     etc...      etc...
>
> Also, fstab (aka the file located at "/etc/fstab") is the file that
> holds the configuration for any partitions that are to be
> mounted/auto-mounted under Linux. This ls also fully normal, and also
> somewhat complicated to someone who has never messed with it before.
> I'll leave the specifics of how/why these work they way they do as an
> 'exercise to the reader', should it be necessary.  Basically though, if
> fstab is attempting to handle things when you get your error, then Grub
> is done working, and probably isn't your problem.
>
> Other than that... Your specific problem was a little hard to interpret,
> so I'm not sure how to proceed.  As far as I understood, you are/were
> having an issue with ubuntu occasionally failing to boot up. is that
> correct?
>
> can you give any more details of the nature of this failure, such as the
> exact text of any error messages on-screen, what you did prior to the
> boot failure, etc?  thanks!
>
> [snip]
>   
>> Sorry for all the detail but I think it is necessary if someone wants to 
>> help me on this problem.
>>     
>
> Dont worry. Generally, detail is good. I personally kind of prefer
> people who give a lot of details, as opposed to people who post a
> question, supply no info, then make getting that info harder than
> pulling teeth, as they expect you to psychically know it already.
>
> [snip]
>   
>> ted at Ubuntu:~$ cat /etc/fstab
>> # /etc/fstab: static file system information.
>> #
>> # <file system> <mount point>   <type>  <options>       <dump>  <pass>
>> proc            /proc           proc    defaults        0       0
>> # /dev/sda3
>> UUID=c8f92b8f-2f46-4500-929b-ccf369500593 /               ext3    
>> defaults,errors=remount-ro 0       1
>> # /dev/sda1
>> UUID=2ED6-1123  /media/sda1     vfat    defaults,utf8,umask=007,gid=46 
>> 0       1
>> # /dev/sda2
>> UUID=58BCBB80BCBB56EA /media/sda2     ntfs    defaults,umask=007,gid=46 
>>     
>
> [snipo]
>
>   
>> #UUID=581CE03A1CE01532 /media/sdc1     ext3    
>> defaults,errors=remount-ro 0       1
>> /dev/sdg1  /media/sdc1     ext3    defaults,errors=remount-ro 0         1
>>     
>
> [snip]
>
>   
>> ted at Ubuntu:~$ cat /boot/grub/menu.lst
>>     
>
> [snip]
>
>   
>> title           Ubuntu 8.04, kernel 2.6.24-24-rt
>> root            (hd0,2)
>> kernel          /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.24-24-rt 
>> root=UUID=c8f92b8f-2f46-4500-929b-ccf369500593 ro quiet splash
>> initrd          /boot/initrd.img-2.6.24-24-rt
>> quiet
>>
>> title           Ubuntu 8.04, kernel 2.6.24-24-rt (recovery mode)
>> root            (hd0,2)
>> kernel          /boot/vmlinuz-2.6.24-24-rt 
>> root=UUID=c8f92b8f-2f46-4500-929b-ccf369500593 ro single
>> initrd          /boot/initrd.img-2.6.24-24-rt
>>     
>
> [snip]
>
>   
>> # This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for a non-linux OS
>> # on /dev/sda1
>> title           Windows NT/2000/XP
>> root            (hd0,0)
>> savedefault
>> makeactive
>> chainloader     +1
>>
>>
>> # This entry automatically added by the Debian installer for a non-linux OS
>> # on /dev/sda2
>> title           Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
>> root            (hd0,1)
>> savedefault
>> makeactive
>> chainloader     +1
>>     
>
> I snipped all but the most important parts from your extensive output so
> others may have the benefit of more concise data, but from what I can
> see in the important parts of your fstab, and your menu.lst file, all
> the partitions look right, and Grub also appears to be set up properly,
> so I doubt the issue is there (though I've been wrong before, and could
> be again). Please post back with the error messages/description of the
> boot failure you are experiencing (as requested above) and we'll be able
> to make some more progress on this.
>
>
>   
Andrew Farris:

Thanks for the effort.  I was confused regarding GRUB disk assignments. 
It has been a long long time since I became aware of the differences 
between GRUB and the other boot schemes. I am in the slow process of  
regaining what I have lost from my memory and trying to sort out new 
ways of doing things from my old ways. The tutorial was nice to get -- 
thanks.  I was hoping that the information I sent would have been more 
helpful in that the problem would just jump out because it was something 
I was missing in the boot set up. It seems I needed on more picture.

Is there is a log file of some sort that I could set up that might 
document where and how the problem occurs?  The boot does generate a 
line by line output to the terminal but it is too fast for me to read.  
What happens is this:  The picture I sent of System Monitor is the 
correct kind of information -- I knew that before posting the problem.  
HOWEVER,  if I could send a picture of the System Monitor at the time of 
this failure it would look very different.  I never thought of sending a 
two picture scenario -- one when it is working (I sent that one) and one 
when it is not working (I did not even think of sending that picture). 
Anyway, the 2 pictures, in my mind, seem to tell the story because  only 
after the problem has occurred the top part of the System Monitor is 
displayed and that picture leaves most of the hard drives NOT in the 
System Monitor picture but also non functional.  The only message I have 
been able to read is something like "fix it yourself" -- that's not the 
actual wording. And the system (what there is of it) goes into 
Administration mode and provides the command shell.  The system thinks 
that the file system has failed and tells me to fix it.  At this stage I 
ran file system checks but that is not the problem.  The problem is that 
most of the hard drives and therefore the ones in "fstab" are NOT 
mounted -- that's obvious.  What I have been doing is simply  on the 
command line doing "shutdown -h now" which brings up the Ubuntu system 
without the rest of the file system. At this point the System Monitor 
shows that most of the hard drives have not been mounted. Further, the 
failure to mount the rest of the file system is not a permanent 
situation -- sometimes the problem occurs and sometimes it doesn't.  
What usually works is to roll back or just shut the system down without 
any connection to the ac power and let it go through a cold reboot. 

This next part may not be relevant but here goes anyway.  I usually have 
no problem if the booting up occurs after there has been a shut down for 
a while like an hour or more. If I try to boot up right after the 
problem has occurred then chances are it won't boot properly and most of 
the file system will be missing.  There are a total of 8 drives one of 
which is the DVD/CD rw and the rest are hard drives with most of them 
NTFS formatted but one is "ext3" and a partiion in another is also 
"ext3" for "/".  The power supply was sized for all these drives.  In 
addition, the system is dual boot, Ubuntu and XP.  This probably means 
that there is a large capacitance that would hold power maybe enough 
power so that the charge does not melt off for a while.  This is bad 
power design and could cause a problem when turning on the machine. Or, 
maybe the power design is good but the component that should drain 
residual power has failed -- still a bad design.

The big point aside from my speculation is simply most of the file 
system  goes AWOL.
 
Thanks, hope this extra information is useful.

Ted Hilts