[OT] was Ubuntu has gone!

Michael Haney thezorch at gmail.com
Thu Apr 23 20:09:51 UTC 2009

On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 7:18 AM, Thorny <thorntreehome at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Apr 2009 14:13:49 +1000, Res posted:
>> On Thu, 23 Apr 2009, Lucio M Nicolosi wrote:
>>> (but not all) and most users do not trim their messages at all, while
>> My pet hate is those who don't trim, but I don't go after those who
>> don't do it, IMHO, top posting is no worse then those who bottom post,
>> especially those who bottom post 3 words, making you scroll down 5 pages
>> of crap to read those 3 words.
>>> a few overtrim to the barely understandable, like they were in a IRC.
>> That is a danger, people when trimming often think the other person will
>> know what you mean, when you have omitted just a tad too much, so long
>> as there's enough there to the point of your comments it should be OK,
>> but I do know what you mean.
> Of course, that's why some of us use clients to read the list that show
> the posts threaded and read them from first to last, rather than just the
> last post of a thread.
>>> It's a real mess, uncomfortable, really hard to follow and collaborate.
>> its been that way since day dot way back then...it'll never change.
> That isn't true Res, in the old days there were fewer "newbies" than
> "regulars" and lists and newsgroups "policed" themselves. People learned
> to fit into a community's standards in order to get the community's help.
> This is similar to the old saying, "when in Rome, do as the Romans".
> Granted, I'm talking about the old days and what we have today is a result
> of an increase of new inexperienced users looking for help and some
> (perhaps many) list members who have an attitude that no one should tell
> them how to act. So, it's not that it'll never change Res, it already has,
> thus I think it could again. Or, at least shift some.
>>> Thus I'm beginning to appreciate our (your) eventual fellow "nazis" and
>>> their persistence in requiring good manners for those waiting at the
>>> soup line.
>> perhaps, but the danger lies within, you cant have a bunch of misfits
>> deciding based on their personal beliefs what anyone else needs to do,
>> moderation is why we have moderators :)
> There is the code of conduct and mailing list etiquette for Ubuntu lists.
> I'm not sure you want to call the people who set those, "misfits" and
> since they were probably decided on by a committee, they likely don't fit
> anyone persons "personal" beliefs exactly. However, there is a framework
> of guidelines that people could follow most of the time and advise others
> of in order to have efficiency and organization in the list. I don't think
> there is much danger that the "enforcement" is likely to be too rigorously
> applied any time soon. Not every person who tries to inform people of list
> standards is being repressive, it just isn't that "black or white".
>> It is very childish of those who publicly state in here they refuse or
>> may refuse to help someone just because that person top posts, I mean,
>> most of us (I know not all, but the vast majority) are adults here, not
>> 8yo's in a school playground, a lot of people in here need to seriously
>> grow up.
> How is that "childish". Adults in society have to follow laws and rules
> all the time in order to take advantage of the services society offers,
> it's more generally children who expect to demand and "get their way" as a
> matter of "entitlement" and who have to learn how to fit in, or "grow up".

Excuse me, but it is childish.  I've seen people throw fits over top
posting, like a child who throws himself to the ground crying, "No I
won't help you until you bottom post, waaaa!"  Those people need to be
wearing diapers.  Its childish and petty to refuse to help a newbie
because they're not following some set of rules you think everyone
should follow but are not set in stone by the Admin.  Unless the Admin
of this group sets such rules in stone they are suggestions only and
"cannot" be enforced by anyone as "the rules".  Only Elitists use
their opinions are justification to impose their will upon others.
There is no room for Elitism in the Linux Community any longer,
especially in a group founded on the philosophies of Ubuntu.

Michael "TheZorch" Haney
thezorch at gmail.com
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