Ubuntu Server intrepid GUI

[Amedee Van Gasse (Ubuntu)]

On Mon, April 20, 2009 15:59, Derek Broughton wrote:
> Amedee Van Gasse (ubuntu) wrote:
>
>
>> madanabhat27 at gmail.com schreef:
>>> Thanx for th tip but how exactly do I get a gui for apache, sendmail,
>>>  dovecot and other such server software bundled with the OS ?
>
>> If you feel unconfortable with editing simple text files, there is
>> always something called "webmin" (Google it), but I recommend very much
>> against is because:
>>
>> * it is somewhat insecure if you run it on a server that is accessible
>> from the interwebs
>
> "It" isn't insecure, putting it on a server accessible from the Internet
> is (ie, the insecurity is with the sysadmin, not the application)

Yes.
That is *exactly* the message that I wanted to make. Sorry, it's a
language issue. English is not my native language. Sometimes I have
troubles to express the finer nuances.

> [and what is with all these apparently tech-savvy people who are calling
> the Internet "the interwebs"? - ugh]

That is sarcasm. Wikipedia explains it very good:

Interweb is a malapropism used satirically or to indicate inexperience by
intentionally and incorrectly merging the terms 'Internet' and 'World Wide
Web'. The joke is that many inexperienced users access content on the
World Wide Web (or "Web") via the "Internet" without knowing what either
is.[1]

The term interweb originated as a response to the ever-increasing influx
of inexperienced users to the Internet's forums and chat rooms. Whereas
the Internet had previously been the exclusive domain of the tech-savvy,
it was now attracting millions of newcomers (noobs) who were now
participating in it, often with poor netiquette.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interweb

Do you see the link between the word "interwebs", and an inexperienced
sysadmin who puts webmin on a public facing internet connection?

>> * webmin can mess up your configuration files in unspeakable ways if
>> you don't know what you're doing (and by the question you asked, I think
>> you don't, not yet anyway)
>
> Again, "webmin" doesn't do that, though individual webmin modules could -
>  but frankly, it's a darn sight easier to mess up configuration files in
> unspeakable ways when you're hand editing them.

Technically you are right. Of course you are. But the intended topic of
the thread was not to discuss the pros and cons of Webmin.
I (and others) were trying to convince the topic starter that (s)he should
edit the config files by hand. That way (s)he has to actually read them.
Most of the times there are a lot of useful comments in a config file
(examples, default values,...) and you don't see them in Webmin.

>> If you want to use webmin, go ahead. But remember that when you ask for
>>  support on this list, we will always assume that YOU have edited your
>> configuration files, not webmin. If webmin changes something away from
>> a default setting, YOU are responsible for it.
>
> But if you hand-edit them, you're not?

I didn't write that.
My point was that (s)he shouldn't blame Webmin.
With a hand-edited file, the cause-effect relation is obvious. Webmin
hides this. Damn. I can't say what I want to say. It's the language thing
again. I cannot explain the nuances in English, and I won't force you to
learn Dutch. :-/

>> In case you didn't get the hint, I want to scare you away from webmin.
>> ;-)
>>
>
> My point precisely.  The typical *nix geek's reaction to gui
> configurators ranges from scorn to apathy.  There is absolutely no valid
> reason to "scare" admins away from webmin - but they _should_ be aware of
> the downsides.

No no no! Really!
This has nothing to do with "the typical *nix geek's reaction to gui".
I am not a *nix geek.
Again, it's the language thing.

>> [*] Even in the 2008 version of that other OS, you don't need a GUI any
>>  more. Everything can (and sometimes must) be scripted. It seems like
>> Bill^WSteve is starting to learn! :-)
>>
>
> "Scripted"?  You mean like webmin?

I mean like PowerShell.
Webmin uses Perl, is that correct?
I think I know where you are going. Forget that last comment about Windows
2008. Please. I already regret that I wrote that.

You give me a sad feeling, and I only wanted to help... :-(

-- 
Amedee