[Media] 8.04 Servers - Wikipedia

Knapp magick.crow at gmail.com
Thu Oct 16 06:20:15 UTC 2008

On Thu, Oct 16, 2008 at 5:34 AM, Michael Hutchinson
<mhutchinson at manux.co.nz> wrote:
> Hello everyone,
> I just read the whole thread of this topic. It would appear that
> computer geeks (or technicians, whatever you call yourselves) could do
> with employing better communication and understanding.
> I, for one, have to completely agree with everything Res said about
> employing Distro's on production servers - but then I am a long time
> Slackware user. The last thing anyone should have to do on a server is
> "apt-get upgrade" possibly causing hundreds of Megs of download - over a
> production link (real great for serving html then eh..).
> If a distribution is "stable", why do updates come out for it,
> consistently? As Res has already said - packages get messed with, and
> therefore more packages need to come out. You may as well run your
> Operating System over the internet.
> When I have used Slackware as a production server, I've not had to
> update anything to get it to work. It just works - and blow me down,
> doesn't fall over either.
> Now, before all the Ubuntu peeps get angry at me: Ubuntu is great too...
> but for different reasons. It is a good desktop operating system that
> isn't windows. As for using it as a server - sure, I've done this and it
> is OK as a Virtual Server to use for testing and setting up minor
> services upon. I am actually required to install Ubuntu LTS on a
> production server at work soon - the boss made the O/S choice for this
> one - if I had the choice it would be something more solid.. but hey we
> don't get everything we want.
> I do remember switching to Linux O/S's a long time ago for one reason
> and one reason only: "Windows Updates". At the time they were busy
> messing the computer up, not fixing anything. The whole apt-get thing is
> just too close to that for me to be 100% comfortable with it.
> I think that a lot of people have misinterpreted Res. He is obviously a
> bit old-school in some respect (hence the preference for Unix-like
> environments) - And can truly appreciate what an Operating system that
> doesn't continually update itself is like to use (Extremely reliable). A
> lot of you younger crowd simply wont get this because you've only ever
> had access to, or, installed a Linux O/S that sucks down packages all
> the time.
> Understandably Res tried to make a point on deaf ears.
> Cheers,
> Manux Solutions Limited

Michael Hutchinson, nice email. Wish more people would write with heart.

I can understand everything you said and it makes sense. If I remember
right Res was the one that was boastful, rude, pompous and swore a
lot. It does not matter what you say, if you say it like that, it will
fall on def ears!

With a very highly loaded system you should have load balancing and
backup systems in place so that if an update fails you loose nothing.
That said updates should be only to fix bugs and security issues. It
is very rare that you need a new feature. That all make perfect sense.
So then the question about Ubuntu servers is, how often do they up
date and why? What do you get with them that you don't get with

Really this is a question that is coming up a lot on the Kubuntu and
Ubuntu lists. Why change? Why go to KDE 4 when 3 works well? Ande most
of all why go to something with KNOWN bugs when you have something
that works better? I think that the more people that come to Ubuntu
and the older it gets the more you will see the devs being forced to
pick stability over innovation.

Having less innovation and bleeding edge will mean that a lot of the
early adopters will move on to something younger and sexier leaving
Ubuntu to the masses. The only way round this is to do what Kubuntu
8.04 did and have the bleeding edge as an option for the brave and
never do what Kubuntu 8.10 is doing, forcing (Come on now, how many
newbies will know the tricks to avoid it, or even think that it could
be done? They will just download the CD and install it. End of story
until they show up here wanting to know why KDE does not work well.)
the average user onto something bleeding edge.

Douglas E Knapp


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