Win98 -- all kidding aside

[Mario Vukelic]

On Thu, 2008-07-31 at 14:48 -0500, Jimmy Montague wrote: 
> I absolutely DO want the power of Linux available to me. I just want it
> available to me through the GUI, 

This is impossible. For those who know how, the command line will always
give the greater power and flexibility for certain tasks. I think you
underestimate the power of a decent shell and a system that can actually
be used by it (e.g., because configuration is stored in text files)

> as the power of Windows or OS-X is
> available to users of THOSE operating systems.

Except that the full power of OSX is only available when using the
command line. I would argue that if you use KDE (that would be Kubuntu
for the Ubuntu family), the power of the GUI is vastly greater than that
of Windows. The default GUI of Ubuntu proper (that is, Gnome), however,
tries to be simple and accessible. This is a different goal.

> I used to be quite good
> with DOS and batchfile programming. All of that went by the board when
> the industry threw DOS in the trash (because it had a command-line
> interface, remember) and went with the GUI. Now, having been using a GUI
> for the last 15 years, I don't want to learn the command line again.

Well, comparing DOS and a Unix-like command line environment is truly
comparing apples and oranges. 

> The command line is dead.

This is so not true. Why do you think that Microsoft created PowerShell?
The command line is still the tool of choice for a wide variety of
computer tasks. I give you that it is not easy to learn, but you said
that you want to use the full power Ubuntu has to offer, so ...

> Linux admitted as much when Linux decided to
> go along with the rest of the world and fabricate a GUI.

"Linux" decided nothing of the sort, since Linux is an operating system
kernel that cares little for the services that are run on top of it.
Several free GUI environments were created for Unix-like operating
systems, but they all run on a wide variety of systems.

Anyway, they were never intended to replace the command line. Some of
those environments certainly strive to create an environment where you
never have to use the command line for "common" end-user oriented tasks,
but that does not, as such, make the command line obsolete.

> So why doesn't the Linux GUI do tricks of which other GUI's are
> perfectly capable? 

You make sweeping statements that are based on nothing but your little
floppy problem. Maybe you should actually learn to use these systems
before spouting off.
If you are into GUI tricks, let me tell you that KDE does a million more
things than Windows. And even the simplest (like Gnome), as well as the
most rudimentary (like tens of pure window managers like WindowMaker,
Afterstep, and so on) GUI environments do certain things vastly better
at window management than what Windows has to offer. The window manager
in Windows only does the absolute minimum of what is required. It could
not even shade windows up to XP (I haven't touched Vista, so cannot
comment).

Now, there are certainly many areas where the free GUIs and the
distributions that use them have to become better to be accessible for
some user groups, but the same is true for Windows and OSX. If you
seriusly ask why, well how about that it is a lot of work that is done
mostly for free. And you use these works for free, so the least you can
do is stop bitching. Either it works for you (as it does for many
people), then great: use it. Otherwise, just use something else, at
least for the time being. Maybe the functionality gaps that make it hard
for you will be closed over time.

> I've been hearing for years (from Linux people) that
> the bad old days of command line programming are history. 

What are you talking about? Please provide citations.

> I've been
> hearing about the elegance and the power of the Linux GUI.

Maybe the people you talked to didn't explain things correctly. Maybe
they have different expectations than you. Maybe they value the elegance
of being able to use ssh transparently in a file manager window over a
paltry floppy naming problem.

> I believed
> the things I heard, and so I am here. 

Great. Maybe you want to actually learn to use the system before making
grand statements and demanding things of people who work for free. EVERY
system has problem. I could just as well use Windows and bitch and moan
how it has only one desktop, cannot use common network protocols
transparently in the file manager, has no unified package management and
update system, has one default GUI it forces on everyone, a command line
that is utterly ridiculous (at least before PowerShell), cannot handle
windows sensibly AT ALL, as an abysmal security record, does not let me
mount devices in the file system tree where I want but forces me to use
ridiculous drive letter, and so on and so forth.

This would all be true, but I would still miss the point: that it also
does some things well, and many good enough for lots of people.

> Now I find that the truth about
> Linux is that Linux is the province of guys like you.  

What did you expect? That everyone here is a saint? That you can barge
in and start insulting the work of free software developers? That
everone would be totally welcoming if the first thing you do is complain
about a maybe annoying, but not all that important issue, and start
telling everyone how much better Windows is because of that?

> Because you understand what I'm asking for, and because you know your
> product is incapable of doing what I ask, you invite me to look
> elsewhere. That's the same Linux help file I see every time I try Linux.
> You must be proud of it because (along with your staunch adherence to
> the command-line interface) it's one thing about Linux that never
> changes.

It's just sensible advice. Use what works for you. Nobody has waited for
you (or me). People and companies are working hard to make things
better, and every year the linux distributions gain more users, because
the system becomes usable for more types of users. If you are not one of
them yet, tough. But what have YOU contributed in personal effort or
financial support to make it better?