[HIJACKED!] What are the best OSS discussion group apps?

[Liam Proven]

On 14/01/2008, Bart Silverstrim <bsilver at chrononomicon.com> wrote:
> Liam Proven wrote:
> > On 14/01/2008, Wulfy <wulfmann at tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> >> Liam Proven wrote:
> >>> Gmail is an excellent tool for handling mailing lists; I have been
> >>> using it for three years for more than 30 different lists which it
> >>> handles with great aplomb. It is fast, efficient and easy and has
> >>> reduced the number of emails I download on my main account by
> >>> something like 1000 messages a day at peak. It works /brilliantly/ for
> >>> mailing lists and its threading is superb; indeed, it is smart enough
> >>> to start a new thread when someone starts a new conversation by
> >>> changing a subject line, which it appears many people's programs can't
> >>> do.
> >>>
> >>>
> >> If it is smart enough to start a new thread when the subject is changed,
> >> why did it leave the message IDs of the previous thread in, which is the
> >> way most e-mail clients thread?
> >
> > What else would you suggest it did? Change the message headers of
> > stuff it receives? I'm perfectly happy with the way it actually
> > worked; I cannot see any way it could be better. There are details of
> > the user interface that I'd change, but by and large, its threading
> > and filtering are 1st rate.
>
> Clients that support "PROPER" threading don't group messages by subject
> line.  They do it by a header like "list-id".  That way the thread is
> properly grouped and ignores when the subject line is altered in some
> small way (adding "RE:", or some other small alteration, or when people
> take the thread in another direction that is still related to the topic.)
>
> What "noobs" like to do if they're not willing to take ten seconds to
> properly address a message is just "reply" to an existing one then
> change the subject line, thus embedding an irrelevant topic into a
> thread about something else altogether because their irrelevant message
> carries the wrong list-id.
>
> At best you annoy people. At worst you ask for help about something and
> embed it into a topic that someone who could and would be willing to
> help you with is ignoring because the topic you hid it in is one they
> have no interest in dealing with.
>
> I don't use gmail, but I have heard this complaint on this and other
> lists.  Your tone is rather hostile over a topic that I don't think you
> fully understood; this will no doubt ruffle more feathers than necessary.

I understand it just fine, thanks. My primary email address is one
I've been using since 1991; it was my second, my first being one I got
at University in 1985, at which time I started to explore the
Internet. I've been using online discussions and mailing lists for
some twenty years now, since long before the Web or indeed Linux
existed.

How Gmail does its threading is a matter for the Gmail developers, not
me. However, as a happy user, I will defend its behaviour against
criticism, especially ill-informed criticism.

I do not know what MUA the person who started this thread uses. I
suspect only he does. So it is pointless to debate whether Gmail
correctly modifies or does not modify the message IDs, since we don't
know if it's Gmail that started the thread or not.

If someone starts a new thread by replying to an existing message and
changing the subject, that is their error, not Gmail's, and again, it
is incorrect to criticise the way that Gmail handles the situation;
it's a user error. If Gmail respects the thread ID then it's doing the
right thing.

> > But this isn't very germane to Ubuntu!
>
> No, but it is relevant to etiquette in using the Ubuntu (or just about
> any) mailing list for help or interaction with other users.

I hardly see why. All you have established is that some people don't
know how to start a new thread and do so by replying to a message and
changing the subject. That's wrong; nobody is disagreeing with that.
The fact that certain email agents see this as a new thread - which is
what I prefer - and others ignore the subject and thread by message ID
- which appears to be what you prefer - is irrelevant.

The only relevant fact here is the correct way to start a new thread.
How different tools handle it when people don't do this is not a
relevant subject and it's certainly not grounds to attack a powerful
and useful free tool. There is no excuse for spreading disinformation
like "Gmail is no good for mailing lists".

-- 
Liam Proven • Profile: http://www.linkedin.com/in/liamproven
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