PS Re: VVDQ : Alpine on Ubuntu??

Thu Jan 10 03:47:47 UTC 2008

On Wed, 09 Jan 2008 19:03:22 -0500
Beartooth Testbedder <Beartooth at swva.net> wrote:

> On Thu, 10 Jan 2008 09:33:40 +1100, Peter Garrett wrote:
> 
> > Start here:
> > 
> > https://help.ubuntu.com/6.06/
> > 
> > Then read:
> > 
> > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/
> > 
> > There's a search box in the top right corner... type the word "upgrade"
> > and see what you get ( I get 15 hits)
> 
> I got 15 by searching Titles rather that Text; so I assumed that was what
> you meant.
> 
> > Read this as well:
> > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SynapticHowto
> > 
> > If you want to learn more, I suggest also looking at
> > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AptitudeSurvivalGuide
> > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AptGetHowto
> > 
> > I also suggest that you not try to run GUI tools from a root prompt. As
> > shown in your post by:
> > 
> > root at SblzUb:# update-manager -c
> > Traceback (most recent call last):
> >   File "/usr/bin/update-manager", line 28, in ?
> >     import gtk
> >   File "/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/gtk-2.0/gtk/__init__.py", line
> > 45, in ? from _gtk import *
> > RuntimeError: could not open display
> > 
> > The display is owned by your user, so you will be refused. You will also
> > run the risk of making your ~/.Xauthority and/or ~/.ICEauthority files
> > owned by root, which will lock you out completely on next login....
> > 
> > This is what "gksudo" is for - for instance "gksudo synaptic" or "gksudo
> > "update-manager -c" Mind you, both of these have perfectly adequate GUI or
> > menu entries anyway, which will prompt for your password.
> 
> IOW, no matter what I do (gurux on my favorite LUG to the contrary
> notwithstanding), the practice of typing 'sudo' and a password every
> whipstitch is built in so deep there's no way to dodge it. Are you saying
> that?

No, you have misunderstood. First of all, you will only need to enter a
password when asked, assuming that you are using the GUi. This will only
be for apps requiring administrative privileges, like software
installation. If you are giving non-graphical commands in a terminal, then
sudo Vs. su has no relevance to my warning. The point I was making concerns
the practice of running GUI apps as root. "gksudo" ( or "kdesu" in KDE) are
just ways of avoiding the permissions getting reset, as I outlined above.
This is *not* peculiar to Ubuntu or to sudo  - it has to do with things
like "MIT magic cookies" (seriously ;)) You can google MIT magic cookies
if you want to know more....
> 
> I have to reply that that one fact, if it is one, is enough to eliminate
> the whole distro from my consideration, or that of pretty much anybody
> else with trifocal fingers and arthritic eyeballs. 

1) Sudo has a default timeout of (from memory) 15 minutes during which you
are not asked for a password ( might be 5 minutes - I would need to look
it up)
2) If you want to be root in a terminal, just type

sudo -i

Like this:
peter at prospero:~ $ sudo -i
Password:
root at prospero:~# exit
logout
peter at prospero:~ $ 

That's 5 more keystrokes than "su" , but you only have to do it once ;p

3) Any time you try to run anything that requires X from a *root* terminal
prompt ( #) or indeed just prepending sudo, you are likely to get the error
message you saw... although this is somewhat dependent on your Ubuntu
version, and individual apps. Again, this is *not* an Ubuntu peculiarity -
you would see the same thing for example in Debian, and probably most
other distros. If you were running your graphical desktop as root you
would not see that error - but running a desktop as root is a totally
braindead thing to do ;-)
> 
> I *will* *not* do it, nor do I think my wife will when she has to manage
> without me. We've seen too much of carpal tunnel, for one thing.

See above. 
> 
> I can manage, more or less tolerably (not happily!) to get by without some
> of my favorite apps (such as Galeon); 

galeon is available - it is in the universe repository...
$ apt-cache policy galeon | tail -1
        500 http://archive.ubuntu.com feisty/universe Packages


> but life is far too short, no matter
> how much or little I have left, for all this eternal sudoing. I realize it
> has its place for many users, maybe a large majority of them, and I wish
> them well; I'm just not one of them.

See above, and please read

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RootSudo

> 
> > If you are running the update manager to try to upgrade to a later version
> > of Ubuntu, you will *only be offered the next version* - you can't go from
> > 6.06 to 7.*
> 
> Two questions : How do I check which I'm running now? 

cat /etc/issue 
      
lsb_release -a


>That upgrader
> crashed, and I want to be sure whether it did anything. uname -a gives me
> a kernel name, but not an Ubuntu name. And I know better than to do rpm
> -q, even if I thought it would work against a whole OS.
> 
> Also, this begins to sound, orthodoxy notwithstanding, like it would be a
> lot less trouble to burn a CD of the latest version, and upgrade from
> that; otherwise, I have hours spent 6.06 > 6.10 > 7.04 > 7.10 > whatever,
> if another comes out any time soon.

Yes, I agree that in your situation that would probably be simpler.
> 
> > 
> > Currently you can only go from 6.06 ( Dapper ) to 6.10 ( Edgy) see:
> > 
> > https://help.ubuntu.com/community/EdgyUpgrades
> > 
> > Your problems stem from not having done the reading required to understand
> > your system. As has been pointed out, a good starting point is the "Help"
> > function which appears on your panel. Remarkably few people seem to read
> > this document, or use its search feature...
> 
> There's a reason for that. Two reasons, in fact. First, all the above
> excellent sites are new to me, and I had not found them; many thanks!

Google is your friend :) Also most of these links, or paths to them,  are
documented in the Ubuntu help, ( click the icon in the top panel!) as
outlined above. For only one example, click on the "free help" link in the
first page of the "help" browser... and follow the links....
> 
> Second, as has long and oft been seen, those who get to the forefront of
> any new subject -- mathematics, philology, you name it -- learn so much
> along the way that it becomes hard to imagine or remember how much current
> beginners *don't* know. This is part of the human condition -- one of the
> more remediable parts, fortunately -- but it always reminds me of the
> classic anecdote about the definition of "obvious" ...

I haven't forgotten, and I'm no guru - but I use Google a lot, and I follow
links about Ubuntu, Linux etc. :) Just as a bit of personal anecdotal
background, I have been using Linux for about six years, and I started off
from the position of a totally clueless Windows 98 user who was fed up with
lockups, reboots, instability, anti-virus, and being treated like a
suspected thief by a certain company at every turn etc. etc. I remember
only too well how much I had to learn at the beginning of my Linux
apprenticeship!
> 
> I thank you profusely for all the clueful URLs.

You're welcome :-)

Peter
-- 
"INX Is Not X" based on Ubuntu 7.04 Live CD: http://inx.maincontent.net
Screenshots slideshow: http://inx.maincontent.net/album/1.png.html
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