being usefull for Ubuntu: vote for Ubuntu

Steve Lamb grey at
Mon Sep 17 21:58:43 UTC 2007

Derek Broughton wrote:
> Which part of my post was so difficult for you to understand?

    None.  Might I suggest that you attept to understand my posts before
presuming it is I that is misunderstanding yours.

> You can STILL create a COMPLETELY free desktop environment, with Ubuntu.

    Not if it requires binary only, proprietary drivers.

> Lenovo's the _hardware_ builder.  They don't need to include hardware
> requiring proprietary drivers.

    No, they don't need to.  But they might have to or, in fact, decide to
do so themselves.  Two points that you seemingly choose to ignore.  If
they decide to either include hardware that requires closed drivers or
write drivers and refuse to release them (ie, write closed drivers) then
it doesn't matter that the base OS is Ubuntu, the end user does not nor
cannot have a completely free anything.

> The point is that it's irrelevant whether the OS includes proprietary
> drivers by default, because whether you need them or not is driven by the
> hardware selection.

    I was never referring to the OS, I was referring to the hardware.  You
are the one operating under the presumption that they will limit
themselves to only what is supported by the OS chosen.  You feel that
they would not write their own code to get things working.  That
thinking does not mesh well with the realities of how many corporate
managers think.

> If you want to pressure Lenovo to use purely free software, you have to
> pressure them to use the right hardware.  Whether or not the software is
> Ubuntu doesn't even enter into that equation.

    Yes.  But the selection was not "what hardware do you want to see" but
"what distribution do you want to see".  What they do after that
software is chosen is not limited to purely open hardware/drivers/code
in spite of what you and others might think.  They can decide to use
Ubuntu, put in a piece of hardware which requires a closed driver based
on cost issues (closed widget is $3 cheaper per unit than open widget)
so decide to use the closed widget with the closed driver and write an
interface for Ubuntu.  End result, you can reinstall Ubuntu all you want
you still need the closed driver and thus, a not-entirely-free system.

    Now, before you slap reply to tell me I am misunderstanding you a third
time please stop and make sure you understand what I am saying.  If,
after due consideration, you feel you do understand and wish to reply
then make sure you reiterate my point before trying to make your own to
ensure you understand my point of view.

Steve Lamb

More information about the ubuntu-users mailing list