Boot screen: Quiet or not?

[Steve Lamb]

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Mario Vukelic wrote:
> NO! So you are telling my mom that she shall set something to hide it?
> I'll tell you a secret: she can't and won't. 

    How does that harm her?  If she asks tell her "those are there in case
something goes wrong, don't worry about it unless it doesn't get to the login
prompt."

    Are you saying that if something goes wrong she'll set something to show
it?  I'll tell you a secret: she can't and won't!

> The correct solution is that non-computer literate users don't need to
> change things and don't have to worry about preferences they don't
> understand. Users who know enough to want something else can change it.

    Unless they're 400 miles away on the other end of the phone line and
asking you for help.

> How do sysadmins come into play? Anyway, sysadmins are usually not
> usability experts. Sysadmins can also easily change it, or *gasp* use a
> distro that is more to their liking.

    "Hi, son?  Uh, the linux box is acting up again.  Yeah, black screen, can
you work with that?"  SysAdmins don't exist in a vacuum.  They have parents
and friends just like anyone else.  Shocking but true!  And amazingly enough
those parents and friends probably won't set the options that would help their
SysAdmin friend out in a pinch.  Refer to mom above.

> I did not say that. I said that is is useless, overwhelming information
> for the vast majority of Ubuntu users, if not now then in the future. It
> is bad UI. There is no reason to turn Ubuntu into Slackware.

    Given the option of Slackware or Windows can we err on the side of
Slackware?  Trust me, Ubuntu is in no danger of drifting into Slackwaredom
just because of 30s of scroll during a critical portion of the machine's
operation.

> You have clearly no experience with non-computer literate users. And the
> progress bar already tells them it has not died.

    He may not, I do.  Several years in tech support, many more years working
on computers for friends and relatives who are, at closest, 200 miles away and
furthest 2000 miles away.  Both the progress bar and the lack of scroll tells
them it has died.  The progress bar doesn't tell *me* why when they call me at
10pm when I'm relaxing from my day and trying to unwind so I can get to sleep.
 The text *does*.  The text isn't for them, it is for *us*.

> There are a gazillion distros who cater for the expert crowd. And yet
> again, it's a ONE-LINE CHANGE IN MENU.CONF, what's your problem with
> that?

    That the Ubuntu my relatives or friends install after I hand them the CD
wasn't vetted completely by me and, as you aptly pointed out, they can't and
won't change it?

> Read Havoc Pennington's essay. It's different because this option does
> not clutter the UI with useless and confusing options

    It isn't a UI!  It is important diagnostic messages!  The UI is what comes
after the phrase "Username: "

> Ok, so I was wrong up there with assuming you have experience with naive
> users. Sorry for saying that. but you should get another job then. I
> have to deal with users for my day job too, both in support and in the
> UI design of an application we develop. I consider every support call
> that I get as a design failure. Yes, many are unavoidable at today's
> state of art, but that doesn't mean one should confuse them with
> desirable or meaningless events. Every support call is a user not doing
> what he's paid for or what he'd like to do better. And it annoys me, so
> I'd rather get rid of them.

    So how, exactly, does telling them to reboot the machines just so you can
attempt to get at the error messages that should be present in the first place
*good* diagnostic design?  It's not.

> Not all users have local geeks, and anyway, none of this is an argument
> to make the system unfriendly or hard to use.

    Exactly.  Tell me how a scroll bar helps the remote geek.  "Uh, yeah, the
scroll bar's at, a hair past half-way."  "..."

> So everyone shall suffer just to spare you making a one-line change in
> menu.lst? I'm afraid your logic escapes me

    'sokay, yours escapes me.

- --
         Steve C. Lamb         | But who decides what they dream?
       PGP Key: 1FC01004       |   And dream I do...
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