Stupid end-user tricks: darcs for /etc and /boot

[Daniel Carrera]

Alexander Skwar wrote:
> No, I didn't. You try to make me look like I did. Why are you doing
> that? In need of flame war, aren't you?

Alex, please calm down. I'm sure you don't think like you took it 
personally.

> That's not what he said. He didn't say that a program didn't
> work. He said, that etc-update may hose the system *completely*.

 From the information available, this seems like a true statement. That 
etc-update may indeed hose the system. And it seems to me that saying 
that you have to be careful with it is a very valid statement. I 
honestly don't see the FUD.

>> FUD is an attempt to spread uncertainty over a product, to make people 
>> not use it.
> 
> Yep. Just what he did. What he wrote can very well be understood
> that way.

I don't get that impression. By comparison, if a Linux user tells me 
that Dapper is unstable and it hosed their system I wouldn't consider 
that FUD. Instead I'd try to find out what the problem is, and if I see 
a way it can be fixed I'd file a bug report in launchpad.

> You're right. But it's not just that *I* "disagree" with what he
> wrote. It's rather, that the opposite of what he wrote is true. And
> that's why it was FUD, what he wrote.

A statement like "Dapper is stable" or "etc-update is dangerous" are not 
gospel truth. There is a degree of opinion, and perceptions will vary 
based on personal experience. If Dapper hoses your system you will think 
it's unstable even if most people in this forum think it's rock solid. 
That wouldn't make your statement FUD. Our friend the OP is in a similar 
situation. You may think that etc-update is fantastic, but his 
experience with it has been very bad and he is not wrong to say so.

>> This is valid criticism,
> 
> No, FUD is close to never "valid criticism". That's one of the
> main points of FUD.

FUD and valid criticism are very different. It looks to me that the OP 
had valid criticism and not FUD.

>> unless you're going to accuse him of lying, which is quite an accusation.
> 
> I'm not - how did you get that idea? Is it, because you tend to do
> such things? Well, live with yet another fact: I'm not like you.

Alex, an ad hominem is not going to improve your position. The OP said 
that etc-update has hosed his system. If you don't think that etc-update 
can do that then either you are mistaken or the OP lied. That's the 
point I'm trying to make. So I am led to think that etc-update is indeed 
a tool that one should be careful with. Even if the OP is actually 
wrong, it seems that calling it FUD is really quite extreme.

>> Just because the program has worked well for you, it doesn't mean that 
>> it works well for everybody.
> 
> Yes, it does.

This is not logical.

> And it doesn't help that you defend this FUD - FUD is FUD is FUD.

This is a too simplistic, almost dogmatic, view of the situation. 
Repeating FUD many times does not make your position more credible.

> Further fact: etc-update doesn't hose the system. A user might
> do this. That's a big difference.

I think this is splitting hairs. You could say the same statement about 
fdisk, Windows, viruses and any software product.

>> The poster disagrees with you,
> 
> Is he? How do you know? The poster didn't write anything anymore.

The poster thinks that etc-update warrants caution, to the point where 
he decided to switch to a different distribution.

> Please stop trying to start a flame war and be constructive

I would be grateful if you treated me with as much respect as I've shown 
to you.

>> Yes they do. And it is not FUD to say that fdisk can totally wreck 
>> your system if you are not careful. It is actually a very true statement.
> 
> No, it actually isn't a very true statement. It's actually a rather
> wrong statement. Not fdisk can wreck your system, but the user can do
> so. It's the fault of the user if he's doing things without having
> the proper knowledge.

I'm not sure that this position holds up. Saying that only knowledgeable 
users should use dangerous programs does not make the programs not 
dangerous. It is true that fdisk can hose your system and users should 
be careful when using it. I know I am.

>> Saying that fdisk can wreck your system and you should be careful is 
>> actually good advice,
> 
> Well, but it's not that you've got to be careful with fdisk, it's
> rather that you've got to be very careless to wreck your system
> with fdisk.

No. It is relatively easy to wreck the system with fdisk. I've never 
done it, but that's because I am very careful when usin git. Saying that 
only knowledgeable users should use fdisk does not change the nature of 
fdisk. I say that only adults should use sharp knives. This doesn't mean 
that sharp knives aren't dangerous.

> As it was wrong, it was FUD.

And there is a fundamental problem with this logic. This is something I 
referred to earlier. The statement "as it was wrong, it was FUD" is 
fundamentally illogical. There are many things that are wrong and are 
not FUD. Indeed, there are even things that are FUD and are not wrong, 
though these are rare.

>> I it crashed on me, that's solid enough to complain.
> 
> No, not necessarily. Maybe your hardware is somehow broken?

If my hardware is broken that doesn't make my statement FUD. It merely 
makes it wrong. It's important to understand the distinction between 
"wrong" and "FUD".

> Here's some more FUD for you, which you'll certainly like: Ubuntu
> is no good, as even the installer and Wifi don't work.

Do you feel that this addition lends credibility to your position? To me 
it seems like you are trying to mock me (ad hominem) which does not help 
make your case stronger.

Best,
Daniel.
-- 
http://opendocumentfellowship.org
   "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the
   unreasonable man tries to adapt the world to himself.
   Therefore all progress depends on unreasonable men."
         -- George Bernard Shaw