AMD Dual Core CPU's
stsykin at gmail.com
Tue Jan 31 09:56:57 UTC 2006
Billy Verreynne (JW) wrote:
> Sasha Tsykin wrote:
> > the majority of processes are handled by the cpu,
> > but the graphics is usually the point where the computer
> > can't cope. For example, my friend has an old p4 cpu from
> > 2 years ago with only 2Ghz
> Well, who do I believe.. my own experience as a developer of over 20
> years.. industry experts such as David Blythe, Microsoft's software
> architect for Windows Graphics & Gaming Technologies... or you and
> your friend's limited experience on an old system?
i don't care who you believe. It's probably much easier to agree to
disagree, particular when you start with the insults.
> David Blythe, in his presentation at July's DirectX Meltdown 2005
> conference (www.microsoft.com/directx), flatly stated that "games are
maybe Microsoft games (as directx is a Microsoft library). In general
the graphics card is more limiting.
> I'm moderate and co-own the X-Plane Development mailing list (see
> www.x-plane.com for the software). I know Austin (the guy who writes
> X-Plane) for almost a decade now. He on numerous occassions stated in
> technical discussions we had that CPU is the major limiting factor. In
> fact, in recent releases he switched to a multi-thread model in the
> core simulator engine to address this and support platforms that have
> the CPU capacity for it.
I already admitted that some games use this, but not many, yet. Likely
there will be more, but not for the moment.
> >> What did you not understand Sasha? I clearly stated that even single
> >> threaded games are using a multi-threaded model when running on
> >> DirectX.
> > most aren't. You're not correct.
> Bs! Please show me a -single- game on the Windows market today that
> does not use DirectX.
I was talking about multi-threaded support, not direct-x support. As for
a single game that does not use directx, how about doom3. Or quake4.
Neverwinter nights. You don't know what you're talkign about. Almost any
game with a linux port does not use directx. They use opengl. That's why
the developers made linux ports. Because its easy for them to port it
because linux also supports open-gl. That's ok though. If you want to
believe that all modern games use directx, you're welcome to. Clearly
your developer experience is not quite so broad.
> And the processing model used by DirectX is not unique to Windows. On
> all other platforms too there are things that a game does not have the
> time to wait on. Like making calls to play sound. Reading textures
> into the game cache. Making a network call during multiplay.
all of which is less demanding on the cpu than the graphics are on the
gpu, particularly high-end graphics of the type you find in the most
modern of commercial games.
> > if cpu requirements go up, that does not mean that extra capacity,
> as you put
> > it will help.
> More bs. Or are you telling me that my 12 node Linux/Sun cluster is
> not about CPU capacity meeting increase CPU requirements?
I don't care about your 12 node Linux/sun cluster. The need for extra
cpu power does not mean the need for more cpus. If an application is
single threaded 300 cups won't make a difference, so stop telling me
about how important many cpus are. If you want to prove they're
necessary, all you have to do is demonstrate that the majority of games
are written as multi-threaded. As yu can't, because they're not, the
point is irrelevant.
> > Extra speed will. Lower latencies will. A non-integrated sound card
> > will (lower cpu utilization). An extra core will not because this is
> > not mutithreaded.
> You are confusing ASIC's with multi-threading (a software model) with
> the dual CPU capabilities.
I am not. Unless software supports multi-threading, hardware
multi-threading will make no difference because it cannot be utilized,
> > no at all. It is usually a bottleneck, just not the most important one.
> Please tell that to the developers of today's game and that they have
> it all wrong.
I have talked to them, and this is what they told me. I;ll believe them
thank you very much.
> > I'm neither confusing nor confused.
> Ignorant then? Or simply having an opinion on everything?
Neither. I just know how to argue a point, and I don't try to insult
people as part of my argument. If you want I can argue with you over
whether that is good manners or just good argumentative technique, but
this mailing list is not the place for that.
> > Starting with a manners breach is silly though, and does nothing for
> you argument.
> When it looks like bs and smells like bs.. I call it bs. But then
> that is just me...
fair enough. Bad vision and a bad sense of smell. Incidentally, please
stop insulting me. I've tried hinting at the need for manners, and it
hasn't work so I will say this plainly. a) Insulting the opposition does
not help advance your arguments. b) It makes it look like you don't have
counter arguments of your own. c) Calling me ignorant is amusing and not
offensive, and thus is not only counter-productive in general, but
completely misses the mark in a specific sense too. Diversity of opinion
is a good thing, and even if you disagree with me, and even if, by some
chance I am wrong, keeping the discussion civil is the mark of intelligence.
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