ubuntu-users Digest, Vol 17, Issue 196
玉璞吴
wuyupu at gmail.com
Tue Jan 17 09:20:52 UTC 2006
Do what sorts of work,use what sorts of tool. I never think Linux is
better than XP or XP better than Linux. I am a engineer, many many
jobs i must do under Linux and from now on all the jobs did well. But
when i went home, i'd like to play games or watch some DVDs , XP
serves well.
2006/1/17, ubuntu-users-request at lists.ubuntu.com
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Let's face it. Windows does do some thing better.
> (ulrich steffens)
> 2. Re: video editor (Duncan Lithgow)
> 3. RE: Let's face it. Windows does do some thing better.
> (Billy Verreynne (JW))
> 4. idVendor and idProduct on usb.id (A. Andria)
> 5. Re: Let's face it. Windows does do some thing better.
> (James Diehl)
> 6. RE: Windows, Linux, The Debate: which is best? (Bry)
> 7. RE: ubuntu-users Digest, Vol 17, Issue 192 (Billy Verreynne (JW))
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 09:02:54 +0100
> From: ulrich steffens <ulrich at barfuss-jerusalem.org>
> Subject: Re: Let's face it. Windows does do some thing better.
> To: ubuntu-users at lists.ubuntu.com
> Message-ID:
> <1137484974.17283.134.camel at rockarolla.20.168.192.in-addr.arpa>
> Content-Type: text/plain
>
> Am Dienstag, den 17.01.2006, 12:41 +1100 schrieb Sasha Tsykin:
> > Senectus . wrote:
> >
> > >On 1/17/06, Frank McCormick <fmccormick at videotron.ca> wrote:
> > ><some serious snippage>
> > >
> > >
> > >>My sentiments exactly. My wife still runs XP and while she is interested at times in Linux, there is no way I would put it on her machine. She is used to running almost ANY video/audio file without problems. She is used to logging onto CNN and watching Videos automatically, she is used to watching movie trailers full-screen if she want to, she is used to being able to use Nero's clean clear interface to burn the odd CD, she is used to not having problems with many websites Linux/Firefox/Opera etc cannot handle perfectly. HOWEVER I still have to run the spyware removal programs, and fix the odd problem for her.
> > >>
> > >>Windows XP is miles ahead of almost any Linux in the day to day operations 90% of the people I know need.
> > >>
> > >>And no I am not a Windows troll. I have been running Linux ranging from Slackware to Mepis to Debian to Ubuntu for 3 years. I don't dual boot. But I figure one machine running Windows is plenty in this house. It works for her as Linux works for me 95% of the time.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >I'd have to disagree with you.
> > >_Windows_ does nothing better than Linux.
> > >It's the fact that there is _so_ much written for Windows, and the
> > >fact that the standard is a Windows standard that keeps people from
> > >swapping over.
> > >I'd put good money on the fact that if the standards used in computing
> > >were opened up, we'd see a _massive_ shift in the market.
> > >
> > >
> > >--
> > >www.modmeup.net
> > >Ubuntu Breezy 5.10
> > >The less you know, the more you believe. - Bono
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > Are you saying that linux is easier to set up and use than windows?
> have you ever used a normal windows installer? not the resue-installers
> that overwrite every bit of your data, i mean the plain win installer.
> the hit-F8-if-you-accept-the-license one.
> if this is considered an easy to use installer, then i don't know what.
>
> > If
> > so, than I would have to disagree with you entirely. What about
> > multimedia support? Just getting asf videos to work in linux can be a
> > chore, and once you have, they work badly. How about browser plugins?
> > Flash 8 has come out for windows, and not linux. As for software
> > standards being opened up, what would that do? The only thing in your
> > post which I agree with is that windows is the measuring post against
> > which other operating systems are judged.
> >
> > This is not to say that I think windows is better than linux. If that
> > were so, the I would use it. I prefer linux and so I use Ubuntu, because
> > it is my favourite linux, but I am not silly enough to say that either
> > a) it is perfect, or b) it has nothing to learn from windows.
> >
> > Sasha
> >
> --
> ulrich steffens
> ulrich at barfuss-jerusalem.org
> http://www.barfuss-jerusalem.org
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 09:05:45 +0100
> From: Duncan Lithgow <duncan at lithgow-schmidt.dk>
> Subject: Re: video editor
> To: Ubuntu Help and User Discussions <ubuntu-users at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Message-ID: <43CCA559.1070203 at lithgow-schmidt.dk>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Wade Smart wrote:
>
> > Thanks for that. I downloaded it and tried it out but it wont import
> > the video.
>
> If you mean capture from MiniDV then try running it as root, there are
> some problems with it which I'm still trying to workout myself as a
> normal user. If you DO mean import then I've also had trouble importing
> AVI files - I haven't tried importing anything else.
>
> Duncan
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 10:07:06 +0200
> From: "Billy Verreynne \(JW\)" <VerreyB at telkom.co.za>
> Subject: RE: Let's face it. Windows does do some thing better.
> To: "Ubuntu Help and User Discussions" <ubuntu-users at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Message-ID:
> <445F36B0271AE1419CEE0B9589044B4321B348 at TYGRRA01-XCS00.telkom.co.za>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>
> ulrich steffens wrote:
>
> >> > Windows handling of multi-media is **miles** ahead of Linux
> handling.
> >> >
> >> very true
> >>
> >what argumentation is that?
> >sure is win better in multimedia handling cause everyone is using
> windows/ms
> >standards. so thats not a real point. or am i wrong?
> >so can i say, that if i prefer quicktime, that win sucks at
> multimedia handling?
>
> You are missing the point Ulrich.. That is -exactly- how Microsoft is
> entrenching Windows (and have been) as "the" desktop o/s. Even to the
> point of crossing the line between what is legal and not.
>
> -THAT- is what Linux has to compete with in the desktop market. Crying
> foul, complaining that it is not fair, or saying that is not a "real
> point" has no bearing to the issue at hand - Windows being the premium
> desktop o/s in the world today.
>
> Linux fans need to wake up to the fact that the desktop market is not
> about what is the "best" desktop technically. In fact, Windows
> -proves- that is it not about that.
>
> If Linux fans wants to make any inroads into the desktop o/s market,
> they need to rethink their strategy of how to attack Windows in the
> marketplace. And keep in mind that Microsoft is literally spending
> billions in R&D to ensure that any such attacks will fail.
>
> IMO.. A lot of Linux fans are living in a dream world and missing the
> very harsh realities of what and why the market selects a specific
> product.
>
> --
> Billy
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 15:23:07 +0700
> From: "A. Andria" <asep.andria at gmail.com>
> Subject: idVendor and idProduct on usb.id
> To: ubuntu-users at lists.ubuntu.com
> Message-ID: <43CCA96B.6060802 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Hi,
>
> As you should know, i'm a novice in linux. I'm using Ubuntu 5.10 (kernel
> 2.6.12).
> I've nokia 3120 and DKU-5 Cable. I can find usb.id file.
>
> Should i download and recompile kernel source or only add the Vendor and
> Product Id to the usb.id file ?
> Is still my DKU-5 need pl2303 module or not to make it work with gnokii ?
>
> This is the Detail from lsusb -v -s 003
> ========================
> Bus 003 Device 003: ID 6547:0232
> Device Descriptor:
> bLength 18
> bDescriptorType 1
> bcdUSB 1.10
> bDeviceClass 0 (Defined at Interface level)
> bDeviceSubClass 0
> bDeviceProtocol 0
> bMaxPacketSize0 64
> idVendor 0x6547
> idProduct 0x0232
> bcdDevice 0.01
> iManufacturer 1 ArkMicroChips
> iProduct 3 USB-UART Controller
> iSerial 0
> bNumConfigurations 1
> Configuration Descriptor:
> bLength 9
> bDescriptorType 2
> wTotalLength 39
> bNumInterfaces 1
> bConfigurationValue 1
> iConfiguration 0
> bmAttributes 0x80
> MaxPower 500mA
> Interface Descriptor:
> bLength 9
> bDescriptorType 4
> bInterfaceNumber 0
> bAlternateSetting 0
> bNumEndpoints 3
> bInterfaceClass 255 Vendor Specific Class
> bInterfaceSubClass 0
> bInterfaceProtocol 0
> iInterface 0
> Endpoint Descriptor:
> bLength 7
> bDescriptorType 5
> bEndpointAddress 0x81 EP 1 IN
> bmAttributes 3
> Transfer Type Interrupt
> Synch Type None
> Usage Type Data
> wMaxPacketSize 0x0004 1x 4 bytes
> bInterval 1
> Endpoint Descriptor:
> bLength 7
> bDescriptorType 5
> bEndpointAddress 0x02 EP 2 OUT
> bmAttributes 2
> Transfer Type Bulk
> Synch Type None
> Usage Type Data
> wMaxPacketSize 0x0040 1x 64 bytes
> bInterval 0
> Endpoint Descriptor:
> bLength 7
> bDescriptorType 5
> bEndpointAddress 0x82 EP 2 IN
> bmAttributes 2
> Transfer Type Bulk
> Synch Type None
> Usage Type Data
> wMaxPacketSize 0x0040 1x 64 bytes
> bInterval 0
>
>
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
> Regards,
> Andria
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 00:21:49 -0800 (PST)
> From: James Diehl <jms_diehl at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: Let's face it. Windows does do some thing better.
> To: Ubuntu Help and User Discussions <ubuntu-users at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Message-ID: <20060117082149.61382.qmail at web81803.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
> I don't do the dual-boot either! I have three drives
> set up in this old Compaq. I have one with XP Pro,
> for school and MS products, one with Ubuntu for having
> some serious fun and learning to develop GUI's and
> such for it, and one with SUSE, so I can learn the
> enterprise versions for it. I'm a CNS and IT student,
> so I need to learn as much as I can about all systems
> so I can work with them for companies/schools/org's.
> Whatever I can learn, will be to my advantage when I
> graduate! Whether it's networking, administration,
> developing, or whatever! Having some fun along the
> way doesn't hurt a thing!!!
> Diehl, James
>
> --- ulrich steffens <ulrich at barfuss-jerusalem.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Am Dienstag, den 17.01.2006, 15:55 +1100 schrieb
> > Sasha Tsykin:
> > > Frank McCormick wrote:
> > >
> > > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > > >Hash: SHA1
> > > >
> > > >On Tue, 17 Jan 2006 09:18:29 +0800
> > > >"Senectus ." <senectus at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>On 1/17/06, Frank McCormick
> > <fmccormick at videotron.ca> wrote:
> > > >><some serious snippage>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>>My sentiments exactly. My wife still runs XP
> > and while she is interested at times in Linux, there
> > is no way I would put it on her machine. She is used
> > to running almost ANY video/audio file without
> > problems. She is used to logging onto CNN and
> > watching Videos automatically, she is used to
> > watching movie trailers full-screen if she want to,
> > she is used to being able to use Nero's clean clear
> > interface to burn the odd CD, she is used to not
> > having problems with many websites
> > Linux/Firefox/Opera etc cannot handle perfectly.
> > HOWEVER I still have to run the spyware removal
> > programs, and fix the odd problem for her.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>Windows XP is miles ahead of almost any Linux
> > in the day to day operations 90% of the people I
> > know need.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>And no I am not a Windows troll. I have been
> > running Linux ranging from Slackware to Mepis to
> > Debian to Ubuntu for 3 years. I don't dual boot. But
> > I figure one machine running Windows is plenty in
> > this house. It works for her as Linux works for me
> > 95% of the time.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>>
> > > >>I'd have to disagree with you.
> > > >>_Windows_ does nothing better than Linux.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > Windows handling of multi-media is **miles**
> > ahead of Linux handling.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > very true
> > >
> > what argumentation is that?
> > sure is win better in multimedia handling cause
> > everyone is using
> > windows/ms standards. so thats not a real point. or
> > am i wrong?
> > so can i say, that if i prefer quicktime, that win
> > sucks at multimedia
> > handling?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>It's the fact that there is _so_ much written
> > for Windows, and the
> > > >>fact that the standard is a Windows standard
> > that keeps people from
> > > >>swapping over.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > Quantity is not quality. GIMP can stand
> > shoulder to shoulder with PhotoShop...but there is a
> > lot of crap software in both camps
> > > >
> > > >
> > > that's true, but in my opinion, the photoshop gui
> > is much more
> > > convenient and easy to use. gimpshop is ok but not
> > as good.
> > >
> > funny, i know a lot of osx users who say that the
> > gui for photoshop gets
> > uglier and less usable with every release. sure they
> > *hate* gimp :)
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>I'd put good money on the fact that if the
> > standards used in computing
> > > >>were opened up, we'd see a _massive_ shift in
> > the market.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > > You and I will both be dead before that
> > happens. Unless some marketing genius gets a hold of
> > Linux, I fear it will always be an also-ran. (Sorry
> > Mark) But maybe that ain't so bad ...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > I don't necessarily agree with that one, but
> > certainly, real prominance
> > > for linux will probably come later rather than
> > sooner.
> > >
> > people don't use win cause its easier, they use it
> > cause its installed
> > on their machine by default. ask an average user
> > what windows version
> > he/she is using. most can't tell.
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >- --
> > > >Cheers
> > > >
> > > >Frank
> > > >
> > > >-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > > >Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux)
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >iD8DBQFDzFnm8Rvr3Tn207ARAmIsAJ9/zTq4deX68dhuLOid4mhuz9hMKwCffGsw
> > > >6PA0vPAe27nudRXAOiRQLfg=
> > > >=/5oK
> > > >-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Sasha
> > >
> > --
> > ulrich steffens
> > ulrich at barfuss-jerusalem.org
> > http://www.barfuss-jerusalem.org
> >
> >
> > --
> > ubuntu-users mailing list
> > ubuntu-users at lists.ubuntu.com
> >
> http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 01:57:54 +0000
> From: Bry <brymelvin at melvinart.com>
> Subject: RE: Windows, Linux, The Debate: which is best?
> To: ubuntu-users at lists.ubuntu.com
> Message-ID: <43CC4F22.7010205 at melvinart.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> >
> > Message: 8 Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 09:08:05 +0200 From: "Billy
> > Verreynne \(JW\)" <VerreyB at telkom.co.za> Subject: RE: Windows, Linux,
> > The Debate: which is best? To: "Ubuntu Help and User Discussions"
> > <ubuntu-users at lists.ubuntu.com> Message-ID:
> > <445F36B0271AE1419CEE0B9589044B4321B346 at TYGRRA01-XCS00.telkom.co.za>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Cybe R. Wizard wrote:
> >> > I'd like to quote a post from 2004 by Kelsey Bjarnason on
> >>
> > alt.os.linux.
> >
> >> > When someone said Linux was always in the future:
> >>
> > <snipped>
> >
> > So what? Since when does 'the truth' make a difference in world of
> > sellers and buyers? Seriously.
> >
> > You cannot attack the Windows Desktop Market with a "my o/s is better
> > than yours". Marketing 101.
> >
> > End-users does not give a damn about the so-called technical
> > superiority of Linux over Windows (which is arguable anyway). They are
> > driven by different needs and requirements.
> >
> > For Linux to make in-roads into the home user desktop market requires
> > not technical superiority, but some common marketing savvy. Or even
> > better, a grokking the basic principles of warfare as per von
> > Clausewitz. Never attack a bigger enemy in entrenched positions with a
> > frontal attack. Outflank them. Wage guerilla warfare against them.
> >
> > But proclaiming that your shiny gun is technically superior than that
> > of the enemy when outgunned a million to one is just plain stupid.
> > Battles and wars are not won that way. Nor marketing share.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Billy
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> I would like to point out that being the "best" does not necessarily
> mean much of anything.
>
> Myself and many other users/former users (including most of the world's
> banks ) of OS/2 can testify to this.
>
> Last month OS/2 was discontinued by IBM. It is alive now only as an
> "OEM" (their words ..not mine :-) ) distribution called eCS by a
> relatively small company called Serenity.
>
> OS/2 indeed brought a number of innovations to computer use and is in
> some aspects what the "non dos" versions (NT) of windows borrowed from.
>
> I still consider OS/2 (eCS) superior to windows... Even though we are
> gradually migrating at my business to Linux I still have OS/2 in it's
> eCS form on my personal desktop. From it I can run all the legacy apps
> we have used through the years, run some ported Linux apps (GIMP
> Imagemagick etc) as I have installed XFree86 on it and run a number of
> win32 apps via ODIN which one might say is OS/2's version of wine.
>
> Migrating to linux is somewhat of a necessity as despite the OS being
> kept alive by serenity systems, there just isn't the developer numbers
> to keep up porting and patching things now that IBM has turned toward
> Linux. ( the amount of developers working on ODIN for example can be
> counted on one hand at the moment). I have my doubts on the longevity of
> eCS as an alternative.
>
> We DO have a couple of windows workstations ,(specifically for Corel and
> Serif Graphics suites...they don't run on crossover OR wine) but I
> haven't trusted our data to windows computers (all the work archived on
> eCS or Linux) for about 8 years and I'm not about to start. In Many ways
> I think OS/2 was FAR superior to windows and in some aspects is still
> superior to Linux. However OS/2 lost the marketing wars years ago and
> at this point IBM won't sell it directly and has suspended all development.
>
> Marketing decisions have always been more influential than technical
> superiority in computing.
> Motorola's 6809 and 68000 chips vs Intel's at the beginning, (remeber
> the coco on OS-9 , the Amiga etc
>
> for that matter the 8086 vs 8088 in the original pcs
>
> Linux MAY be superior in some ways....to windows but that doesn't
> necessarily mean much to most people.
>
> Most people don't CARE about the structure of the operating system any
> more than they do about the internal design of their toaster or
> microwave, or cell phone. They care that they can use it ...and don't
> have to study things to make it work.
>
> They also don't care about open source vs proprietary code.
> Computers to most are an appliance. Yes there is an awareness of "other"
> operating systems to some extent, but that is to them the same as buying
> aftermarket high performance parts for their car or something similiar.
> they don't have to install special stuff in their TV Toaster or
> Dishwasher. To them the Over the counter windows computer is ENOUGH
> trouble without having to bother to change things around. Most never
> even install a new Operating system. When the one they buy quits working
> either from component failure or operating system failure, they trash it
> and get a new one.
>
> Linux is a good deal. More and more businesses and governments are
> looking at it . IBM is supporting it, Novell and DELL also to COMMERCIAL
> customers. Walmart is experimenting with Linux computers retail as are a
> few others but they are the exception to the rule.
>
> I Don't think we're going to see Linux suddenly become popular. we'll
> see a gradual shift toward Linux FIRST from those using proprietary Unix
> and OS/2 (yes OS/2 died years ago...on the consumer desktop, but NOT in
> business. ). I think SUN sees this hence open solaris.
>
> I don't think by the time the majority heads to open source Linux or GNU
> or or Open Solaris will exist. I think as hardware evolves it will force
> may aspects of Personal Computers to be more standardized.
>
> But that's just a wag.
>
> FWIW We moved to Ubuntu from SuSE for migration for two reasons:
>
> 1. a SINGLE basic CD installation...and get the accessories you want later.
> Our first SuSe Installation had me pulling out 100 odd games. Commodore
> 64 emulators and a really serious amount of junk apps( like Krpm)
> "earth" etc etc for weeks.
>
> 2. Novell bought SuSe....I remember taking that red box of Novell
> Networking and pitching it from three stories to a dumpster. ...And
> then installing Lantastic..(now also extinct) It was a traumatic
> experience paying what I did for those headaches :-)
>
> Bryann
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 10:58:35 +0200
> From: "Billy Verreynne \(JW\)" <VerreyB at telkom.co.za>
> Subject: RE: ubuntu-users Digest, Vol 17, Issue 192
> To: <ubuntu-users at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Message-ID:
> <445F36B0271AE1419CEE0B9589044B43AE39AF at TYGRRA01-XCS00.telkom.co.za>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> An embedded message was scrubbed...
> From: "Billy Verreynne \(JW\)" <VerreyB at telkom.co.za>
> Subject: RE: ubuntu-users Digest, Vol 17, Issue 192
> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 10:58:35 +0200
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> End of ubuntu-users Digest, Vol 17, Issue 196
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