Breezy Badger - Ubuntu Kubuntu mix

[Antony Gelberg]

Bjørn Ingmar Berg wrote:
> I wrote:
> 
>>>At login I can chose wether I want to start Gnome or KDE and both work
>>>very well.  Even so I'm not completely satisfied.  The problem is that
>>>in the menues in Gnome I now have lots of KDE-applications, and in KDE
>>>I have lots of Gnome-applications.
> 
> 
> On 03/04/06, Antony Gelberg <antony at wayforth.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>>This is really quite a normal thing.  Many users wish to run Gnome or
>>KDE, but use apps from the other.  If a Gnome user wants to run k3b,
>>should it be left off the menu?  It just doesn't make sense (to me) to
>>limit the user in that way.
> 
> 
> Of course it doesn't make sense.  If that is what you wish for.
> That is why I mentioned it's understandable that this happens.
> 
> Me again:
> 
>>>But now -in hindsight- I wish Gnome had kept itself
>>>Gnome-only and KDE had ended up KDE-only.
> 
> 
> On 03/04/06, Antony Gelberg <antony at wayforth.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>>Why?
> 
> 
> Because I would have liked to keep Gnome as it was without the
> added KDE-apps.  Because I would have liked to see how the default
> KDE setup was without the added Gnome-apps.
> Because (just as you point out that some users would like to add apps
> from the other GUI) I would have liked to keep them separate.
> Because the reason for my stunt wasn't to add heaps of apps that
> compliment and/or duplicate eachother, it was to look at and compare
> Ubuntu and Kubuntu in their "out-of-the-box" states.
> Simply because that was what _I_ wanted.
> 
> On 03/04/06, Antony Gelberg <antony at wayforth.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>>Why not just leave as is?  What if she likes KDE and rhythmbox?  The
>>fact that Gnome and KDE both come with a set of apps should be seen as a
>>bonus for those that want to use those apps (and a downer for those that
>>don't ;).
> 
> 
> The concrete "she" in question just about knew her way around windoze.
> She has enough getting used to her new GUI without the added complexity
> of having several apps that can perform the same task.  First I'll teach her
> Linux and KDE or Gnome, then I'll start showing her the verastility of Linux
> and the pletora of applications to chose from.
> First crawl, then walk.  Or in other words, I don't want to make her learning
> curve steeper than it has to be.

If that's the case, then for my money Gnome is much simpler and cleaner, 
and KDE is confusing and garish.

> On 03/04/06, Antony Gelberg <antony at wayforth.co.uk> wrote:
> 
>>It's funny, in my short time here it's amazing to see how people view
>>Ubuntu as a monolithic entity, in a way that I've never seen in other
>>distros.  Or Ubuntu and Kubuntu as such different entities.  They're
>>just a kernel, apt, and some other packages.  :)
> 
> 
> Please don't "talk down" to me.  And if that wasn't your intention I'm
> afraid that is how you come across in this paragraph.
> I have worked with IT and user support since 1985.  I have worked with
> more than 20 different OSes, counting various flavours of Windows as
> one.  Now I am in the process of learning Linux in general and (K)Ubuntu
> in particular.

Please don't accuse me of talking down to you.  I'm sure you are 
experienced enough to see that I was merely commenting on the different 
vibe of some Ubuntu users compared to any Linux users I've come into 
contact with.

> I value the variety of applications and richness of choice we have, just
> as you seem to do.  I believe that for my own use I'll end up with a mix
> of various apps.
> 
> Nonetheless I'd like to look at and compare Ubuntu and Kubuntu in
> their "out-of-the-box" states, and the best way to do that for me would
> be to have them "side by side" in the same computer.  

If you have the disk space and motivation, a side-by-side install might 
be good.  In fact here's an idea that beats creating disk partitions. 
Why not return your Ubuntu install to the default, or re-install if it's 
a new box and you think it would be quicker than purging packages.  Then 
   create a chroot and install Kubuntu into that with debootstrap. 
Voila, two separate installs.  With not much work you could have Ubuntu 
on Alt-F7 and Kubuntu on Alt-F8.  They would share a kernel but big deal.

> People have
> put lots of work and energy into making the selections of software in
> these two flavours of the distro.  They must have had their reasons.
> And I'd like to see them set up and running as the people behind this
> planned.  Without various additional apps.  This will for example help me
> give a qualified answer if someone asks me if I recommend Ubuntu or
> Kubuntu for them.
> 
> I think it is a good idea to keep things simple and uncomplicated for
> new users.  One and only one application for each task.  I think it is
> smart for new users to get to grips with a simple and straightforward
> system, like a default Kubuntu or Ubuntu.  Variety and choice can
> come later, when they're ready for it.
> 
> I do not consider Ubuntu nor Kubuntu to be monolithic entities.  I see
> no problem with mixing Gnome- and KDE-apps, and do not consider
> it wrong.  Even so I would like a way to keep them separate, when
> THAT is the way I happen to want it.  As Linux is all about choice I
> personally think it should be valid to chose that variant as well.
> 
> I asked in what I hope was a polite way for help with a certain task that
> I wanted to perform.  The response "why do you want to do that?" can
> have a certain merit from a philosophical point of view.  Unfortunately it
> wasn't very helpful for me, as I want to get something done; not discuss
> the philosophy behind it.

You're often going to get discussion on a mailing list.

> If I was in any way rude in saying I want to keep Ubuntu and Kubuntu
> separate in my computer, I apologise in any way possible.

You weren't and I never said or implied you were.