Ubuntu compatibility with Debian?

Vincenzo Di Massa hawk78_it at yahoo.it
Mon May 9 07:55:39 UTC 2005


Alle 00:40, lunedì 09 maggio 2005, David Teague ha scritto:
> Vincenzo wrote:
> > If you use a not-beer-free distro you loose the freedom to modify a
>
> package
>
> > compile options/dependencies.
>
> This is not true. The entire distro is (as it must be) GPL'd so I
> can fetch the sources and do exactly the same thing for that distro
> that you describe for Ubuntu.

You are right. GPL gives you the right to obtain and install the sources (but 
only by snail mail).
Moreover when you use a distribution that is meant to sold and not downloaded 
you end up with an unflexible package management/development process.
I have used an RPM based distro for years, I'm a somewhat skilled programmer 
(my name is in the kernel sources), but I never managed to properly build an 
RPM package.
Using .deb, dpkg and apt is onother planet: I learnt it in almost in no time. 
Now I'm able to create good .deb packages in just 1 minute more than 
compiling time (without using checkinstall & Co.).

If you really care about feedom, I hope you will prefer to have actual freedom 
to modify/compile/repackage things and not just the unusable right to be 
free. Thing need to be confortable!

Regards
Vincenzo

>
> The GPL does not prevent me from selling software that uses the GPL.
> It does require that I supply sources for anything for which I have
> released GPL'd binaries, at a cost no greater than my actual cost for
> sending the sources.  At least that's how I remember the details.
>
> HOWEVER, that I can do this for Ubuntu is a REAL factor in Ubuntu's
> favor. There is no clear advantage for either distribution!
>
> I have CDs coming from Ubuntu 5.04. I will retain an install and
> a live CD, and distribute the rest to students and the local computer
> user group.
>
> Nevertheless, I believe I will buy the not-free-as-in-beer distro. I have
> at least two 350 MHz machines with substantial RAM so I will install
> both and play for a while.
>
> Many thanks!
>
> David Teague,  http://cs.wcu.edu/~dbt
> Advocating Free Software and Double Bass tuned in fifths
> www.dennismasuzzo.com;  www.silviodallatorre.com
> www.joelquarrington.com/;  For information on Red  Mitchell,
> http://home.teleport.com/~mimuma/;  www.larryholloway.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Vincenzo Di Massa" <hawk78_it at yahoo.it>
> To: "Ubuntu Help and User Discussions" <ubuntu-users at lists.ubuntu.com>
> Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 6:24 PM
> Subject: Re: Ubuntu compatibility with Debian?
>
> > I would not be so worried:
> > since debian and ubuntu use the smae packaging tools you can *VERY*
> > easily rebuild a DebIan package into an Ubuntu package.
> >
> > The debian/ubuntu packaging system allows you to:
> >
> > $ apt-get source <pkg-name>  # Download the package sourcecode
> > $ cd <pkg-name-version>
> > $ edit debian/control    # Edit the dependencies in this file
> > $ apt-get build-dep <pkg-name>  # Download the build-dependencies
> > $ debuild      # Build it
> > $ dpkg -i ../<pkg-name-version>.deb   # Install it
> >
> > This is very quick, intuitive and gives you the option to rebuild the
>
> packages
>
> > the way you like best (just edit debian/rules if you want to change
>
> compile
>
> > options). Using yada you can package previuosly unpackaged software in a
>
> very
>
> > similar, quick way.
> >
> > If you use a not-beer-free distro you loose the freedom to modify a
>
> package
>
> > compile options/dependencies.
> >
> > Alle 03:47, domenica 08 maggio 2005, Stephen R Laniel ha scritto:
> > > On Sat, May 07, 2005 at 09:35:37PM -0400, David Teague wrote:
> > > > How compatible is Ubuntu with Debian Stable, Testing,
> > > > Unstable, and Experimental? If I choose some package
> > > > from say Unstable and install it in Hoary, am I asking for
> > > > difficulty?
> > >
> > > Yes. I can't give any good background reasons for this, but
> > > in my experience installing Debian packages under Ubuntu is
> > > just a recipe for trouble.
> > >
> > > Part of the trouble is that Debian packages are looking for
> > > Debian dependencies. Deb packages might have version 2.12,
> > > and the corresponding Ubu package is called 2.12ubuntu. The
> > > Debian package coughs and says, "Wait a second: we need
> > > 2.12, and all you have is 2.12ubuntu." So you end up, if you
> > > want the package, doing
> > > 'dpkg --ignore-depends=[packageName]'. What a mess. I avoid
> > > installing Deb packages under Ubu at all costs.
> > >
> > > > At least one person suggested that Ubuntu's changes
> > > > almost amount to "a fork in Debian development." I
> > > > believe that is an exaggeration. Please remark on any
> > > > features or design decisions of Ubuntu that might have
> > > > been a basis for such a remark.
> > >
> > > The most public comments along those lines were Ian
> > > Murdock's (the 'ian' in 'Debian') on his blog. See here
> > > generally:
> > > http://google.com/search?q=ubuntu+site%3Aianmurdock.com
> > >
> > > and here specifically:
> > > http://ianmurdock.com/archives/000244.html
> > > http://ianmurdock.com/archives/000258.html
> > >
> > > Mark Shuttleworth hasn't yet responded, as far as I know. I
> > > don't know what the latest is on Ian's suggestions.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Stephen R. Laniel
> > > steve at laniels.org
> > > +(617) 308-5571
> > > http://laniels.org/
> > > PGP key: http://laniels.org/slaniel.key
> >
> > --
> > ubuntu-users mailing list
> > ubuntu-users at lists.ubuntu.com
> > http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-users




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