SPAM=Re: Ubuntu is under attack. Administrators responsibility.

[Phillip Sc. Boegh]

> Phillip Sc. Boegh wrote:
>
>>> On Tue, 2005-12-20 at 15:34 +0100, Oliver Grawert wrote:
>>>> ubuntus popcon doesnt use mail for delivery
>>>
>>> Then the description is wrong:
>>>
>>> aptitude show popularity-contest
>> ... this is spam too - as it do not consern the subject!
>>
>> What is spam? That is when members or anybody post Emails with headlines
>> and talk of enything else in the mails to promote themselves or a
>> subject
>> not relevant!
>
> In the first place, that doesn't describe spam.  In the second, I haven't
> yet seen a post in this thread that doesn't directly concern the OP's
> (Mike Bird, I think) concern.  By constantly complaining that we aren't
> sticking to the topic of the subject, you're only increasing the number
of > posts in the thread.  Please stick to the topic.
But mine complain is on topic yours are not - an example:

---------------------------------
How much does the below consern "Ubuntu is under attack?"

mån 2005-12-19 klockan 01:30 +0000 skrev Old Rocker:
> > I know I use Ubuntu in no small part because it follows the Gnome
> > release schedule and includes very recent versions of a lot of other
> > stuff as well (not the least all the tasty kernel-related work, with
> > HAL and Dbus, recent drivers and so on). To get there using Debian
> > you pretty much have to resort to building things yourself.
>
> Sometimes you do, sometimes you don't.  That's not the point: current
> Ubuntu repositories are optimised for Ubuntu-only use.

As they should be.

>   I understand
> that Debian will hold up moving packages from one repository to another
> because they do not meet Debian's status for all their platforms,
> whereas Ubuntu has more limited platforms to ensure that software meets
> its standards.  But why not include the Debian specific software in
> Ubuntu's repositories, instead of having yet another version of the
> same program?  And why not strive to develop fully Debian compatible
> software in the first place?

My understanding is that many packages in Universe actually are the
Debian packages, just with a rebuild to reflect the Ubuntu origin -
which it should, as the Debian packager no longer can be expected to
provide support for it. I've had fairly good luck with using Debian
packages for things that aren't in the Ubuntu repositories. Those that
fail tend to be those very packages with hoary enough dependencies that
reconciling Ubuntu and Debian would not be possible in any case.


> >  There is a set of tradeoffs between stability, amount of fully
> > supported packages, supported architectures and recency. Ubuntu makes
> > a different tradeoff than Debian towards recency. That is _giving_
> > people choice, not taking it away.
>
> Well, I disagree, but I will defend your right to be wrong :-)  Ubuntu
> is a good distro, despite what I have said, but it would be a better
> distro IMHO if it was fully Debian compatible.  What I am concerned
> about is a fork in the Debian project that could ultimately bring about
> its end.

Yep, discussion is good.

My concern is mostly that "fully Debian compatible" means "just another
repackage of existing Debian", and we have what, a dozen such distros
already? One reason Ubuntu has taken off in a way none of the others did
is that Ubuntu does do things different from Debian - and thus there is
an actual reason for some people to use it instead of Debian.

ANd actually, I believe the emergence of Ubuntu has been a very good
thing for Debian too. It is a reflection that not all existing or
potential Debian users have been happy with the direction and speed it
has taken the past few years, and I think it in a small way has helped
the Debian community to focus. And again, it's not that Ubuntu packages
are incompatible so much as simply ahead of their time with respect to
Debian.

On a personal note, if Ubuntu lost its focus of delivering a great,
integrated and polished - and current - Gnome desktop, I'd have to find
a different distro that did.

-- 
Dr. Jan Morén (mr)
Japan:  090-3622 8920           jan.moren at lucs.lu.se
Sweden: 031-360 7723            http://lucs.lu.se/people/jan.moren


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