X-IMail-SPAM-Connection Re: X-IMail-SPAM-Connection Re: merchandise

[sparkes]

david wrote:
> On Thu, 2004-11-18 at 20:33 +0000, Shango Oluwa wrote:
> 
>>"or remain using a distribution that was created from African sweat
>>and monetary resources"
> 
> 
> Er, hang on a minute.
> That is not an accurate statement.
> Maybe the money behind Ubuntu came from that place but the code is
> global.
> 
big rant coming on.  Supporting both your views (which are not as far 
about as most in this discussion)  Take a deep breath but whatever you 
do don't hold your breath ;-)


The money be the money of a man who lives there but money is just pieces 
of paper.  It's more important to remember the spirit that has been 
attached to ubuntu is a good thing.  Ubuntu carries a far more powerfull 
message than GNU it's just a lot more subtule.  People who don't want 
this attachment are free to ignore it.  They will still get a fantastic 
distro.  They just won't reach out quite so far.


> "I think that the philosophy attached to this distro, while admirable,
> will only hinder its use and growth"

The Debian GNU/Linux project has a strong moral belief.  It really wears 
it's heart on its sleeve.  You know where you are with debian.  Ubuntu 
is a fine veneer over debian (In political terms, not in technology 
terms).  Something lots of people have called for and lots have 
promised.  But only ubuntu delivers.

Ubuntu is a debian message that normal people can quickly understand.

The freedoms associcated with software are so complex we have turned 
ourselves into committee members and fight each other at every turn just 
for a few missing words (or words added in the case of BSD)  We have a 
movement that is pushing a better techical solution, a better social 
solution and a better financial solution to some of the worlds producers 
and the mearest words divide us time and time again.

Many thousands of developers and users think Debian GNU/Linux is a 
project worth supporting with their time and efforts.  It used to be the 
most unfashionable project, it was just too right on.  But more and more 
people started to understand the message.  And for every new user a new 
evalgalist was born.  Some of those evaglelists have brought many new 
devs into the team and some have brought many new users.  Some have 
brought new ideas into the team.  A certain few have even turned people 
away *shock horror* ;-)

The way debian works means new ideas sometimes don't get heard as they 
should.  Sometimes this is a bad thing, but mostly it's good.  The rants 
and flames get kept between the parties best qualified to fight it out. 
  The best solution normally bubbles to the surface and can be overtaken 
by a better solution at any time.  And all of this is free.  Free as in 
speech, free as in beer.

Lots of people have had the good idea to spin off Debian GNU/Linux and 
turn it into something else.  A good desktop distro.  Take the best bits 
(dpkg mostly under the surface, and some of the politics but not enough 
to interfear with business) and add something.  Normally a glossy shine 
but the gloss veneer started to peel and the company stuggled to 
maintain the start.  Being companies they have to make money from their 
clients whenever they can (it's the law) if the distro is starting to 
fail they have to make the most money possible for the shareholders. 
Normally this is running away from linux making the technical guys they 
worked with look like leapers.  Some very inflenial and efficent guys 
have been cast off like this when the business partner with the money 
turned tail.

But it hasn't always been companies, sometimes it was teams.  Small 
teams can use the Debian project to source a working system and build 
onto it and make it do new tricks.  Like booting from CD.  These teams 
rarely made money (as a company) but many of the poeple volunteering 
thier time later found themselves in the employ of linux friendly 
companies.  This is a natural extention to the debian project.  Most of 
these projects could have taken off as offically sanctions ports but you 
know how it is with people, to own something that little bit of kudos 
and while they are doing the right thing is glory is what they want let 
them have it.  They will get bored after a while and look for a new 
technical trick hopefully in the employ of a linux friendly company who 
stalked they like a wabbit

It seems to be Cannonical isn't about to blow up and run away from what 
they have started.  They have pulled together a great team of people a 
who's who of debian developers in most areas and some of the most 
talented multi roled individuals in free software.  Pretty much any two 
of the hires could have spunoff a project such is the depth of 
knowlodge.  They don't have to make money tomorrow to satify the 
moneyman because the moneyman is a Debian man too.  The money came from 
technology and is now being redistributed philphically into communities 
that benefit from it.  African Schools, Free Software and the desktops 
of the world seem to be the first lucky benifiaries.  What this means to 
cannonical and ubuntu is really important.

Don't go asking where cannonical are going to make their money because 
if they don't earn a penny in the next 2 or 3 years it's not going to be 
a problem.  Cannonical aren't going to ditch us because we are *all* 
part of the free software movenment.  There's no us and them.  Whatever 
t-shirt they buy of cafepress, while they are helping to promote the use 
of ubuntu they 'get' ubuntu.  at least that's how I see it ;-)

The selling of services is often mooted.  And cannonical will sell some 
services but unless they are IBM the services won't be more than the 
outlay for a couple of years.  No sweat for a couple of years.

Whereever in the world you might be once you understand the concept on 
ubuntu it's easy.  It's just started snowing and I have been across the 
road to see the two men who live there (they are older and have serious 
mental problems)  That is ubuntu.  Helping the pregnant women with her 
pushchair up the stairs when the elevator was broken today was ubuntu. 
Our languages are very different but the little things we do for each 
other are universal.

I don't see ubuntu has having any baggage.  I think it carries the 
baggage on Debian very well, it does't break any of debians strong 
points (as lesser clones have) it builds on Debian.  And more than that 
as good Citizens ubuntu patches are reaching debian and spreading the 
love even further.

> 
> Not my experience thus far (though limited in extent) people have
> reacted positively. It is refreshing because it's not a sales pitch.
> Because there is no sale to make. It's refreshing because it's free and
> given with a smile.

true any offer with a smile is one well recieved (unless it's from a 
crocodile ;-) )  The fact that you can give away something that is so 
well produced and on time is just amazing.  Tell them it's free, it will 
always be free and every 6 months you can get the most upto date version 
for free.  Now and forever.  No money down.

> 
> I am worried somewhat over corporate take up of this distro because it
> enables them to further pretend to be humanitarian whilst actually being
> capitalistic. This would be a bad thing. Let them stick to RHEL, JDS, &
> SuSE.

 From the Open Source Definition

5. No Discrimination Against Persons or Groups
6. No Discrimination Against Fields of Endeavor

that also includes evil bastards who might be turning whales into 
babyfood which themselves are being bred as whalebait. ;-)

I personally have a couple of tails about corporate whores that are 
better left off list ;-) let's just say that's politics and the rest of 
the rant has been about defusing the politics already mooted by showing 
just how simple and how they fit into the live of anyone of whatever 
polical or religious extration.

As an Anarkist Buddest I can pretty much get away with polical and 
philosical rants from time to time ;-)  It's a case of chilling out and 
not letting our brothers and sisters tastes and statements upset us.  I 
know that is rich from me as I am normally the first to attact any 
perceived injustistice.  That's part of my learning. ;-)


> 
> /end rant
> 
> regards
> 
> David
> 
> 
anyway with that over are David and Baza going to bring the Birmingham 
lot over for our christmas curry?  Anyone else in the UK Midlands also 
welcome I just noticed two local faces in tonights crowd.

When the date is confirmed (we are very informal and sometimes have two 
mass pissup and curry fests around christmas, partyone and partytwo) but 
if we confirm on good date it will be on wolveslug.org.uk at somepoint.

cheers

steve parkes

-- 
<davee> "Sparkes, the Pete Best of LugRadio"