<div dir="ltr">Kevin, With the advent of inexpensive netbooks running various distros of Linux and the promise by Mark Shuttleworth of  Ubuntu/Remix Atom processor netbooks on the horizon I am having trouble understanding the NTR mission of spending hundreds of man hours on resurrecting old hardware to keep Microsoft software in front of financially challenged people both young and old. Providing inexpensive old Windows computers just encourages software piracy since the NTR client base can't afford to got to Staples and buy a copy of Office or any good gaming software for that matter. I would posit that a paradigm shift by NTR from Windows to Ubuntu along with training classes for the client base on how to use Ubuntu, Open Office, GIMP, etc would create users interesting in using computers for productivity and eliminate the need for pirated software. I am not a game player but I have to believe there must be FOSS games for young people. John <div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 8:39 PM, Kevin Valentine <<a href="mailto:kevin.valentine@gmail.com">kevin.valentine@gmail.com</a>> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> Hello everyone, I posted a question to the Ntr_Staff mailing list about the use of OSS at NTR. Specifically about the use of Ubuntu (see way down below). Steve Feldman gave a sobering and well phrased reply. I thought I should forward it here for potential discussion. I believe we're addressing items 2 and 3 by making a presence at NTR regularly. Can't say much about 4. Haven't used lin/win modems. Just know that some are supported by Linux (<a href="http://linmodems.org" target="_blank">linmodems.org</a>) What I really want to focus on is item #1. It seems that NTR must cater to the needs of their pirating clients. I'm sure they didn't intend for it to sound this way but aren't they condoning software piracy. I understand they're just being practical. If they know their clients are going to install pirated MS Office to replace OO when they get home, then why not send them home with Ubuntu so they can replace it with pirated Windows? At least they'll get to see Ubuntu for a little while. Heck, some may even keep it on there. Any comments? -kevin -------- Original Message -------- Subject:        Re: [Ntr_Staff] questions about OSS usage at NTR Date:   Mon, 14 Jul 2008 11:34:56 -0400 From:   Steven Feldman <<a href="mailto:steve@ntronline.org">steve@ntronline.org</a>> Reply-To:       NTR Staff <<a href="mailto:ntr_staff@listsrv.ntronline.org">ntr_staff@listsrv.ntronline.org</a>> To:     'NTR Staff' <<a href="mailto:ntr_staff@listsrv.ntronline.org">ntr_staff@listsrv.ntronline.org</a>> References:     <<a href="mailto:f1a29efa0807120936g58f56787t51c4a622ba7c94c0@mail.gmail.com">f1a29efa0807120936g58f56787t51c4a622ba7c94c0@mail.gmail.com</a>> Hello Kevin, I can't speak for the images in its current state, but it's been my intention and responsibility to give the images a thorough review and keep up with maintenance (hopefully I'll be able to start that soon). My main goal will be to ensure all software is up to date and legitimately distributed by us. Of course, open source will best serve our needs there, followed by freeware when necessary, and reluctantly the windows OS licenses which we have to pay for. Ubuntu is a fantastic distribution – I've been using it myself for a couple of years. But a few things make it suboptimal for our images at the moment: 1. Compatibility with peer-owned software is limited. Wine is great but is not automatic or fully compatible. It's my understanding many of our customers look for a pirated copy of MS office as soon as they get the machine home. They also expect to be able to pirate other media applications, games, etc. Further, I have little expectation of our clientele to be sympathetic to the legal & ethical issues surrounding piracy. 2. With limited peer use of linux, there is one less significant support system available for new PC users. As we can expect much of our clientele to be new computer users, new internet users, and sometimes even have poor literacy, typical methods for acquiring knowledge about linux are less readily workable. 3. Knowledge & support in NTR is currently inconsistent. 4. Software Modems. We use a terribly large and unreliable variety, linux doesn't always play nice with 'em. I'm well aware these are mostly surmountable problems, and I'm also aware of most of the good reasons for using ubuntu or other linux distros. Lowering our costs and potentially reducing support requirements for some of our placed machines would be huge. Of course, the principles behind OSS & the Ubuntu developers are not lost on a socially-minded non-profit like NTR. BUT.. such work is relatively low priority compared to other current responsibilities, I have no choice but to decline for now and reconsider in the future. Macintosh computers don't move well at NTR for mostly the same reasons. I'd love any input from our staff or volunteers. Thanks, Steven Feldman Tech-Redi at NonProfit Technology Resources 1524 Brandywine St. Philadelphia, PA 19130 mobile: 267-671-8448 office: 215-564-6686 fax: 215-564-6642 <a href="http://www.ntronline.org" target="_blank">http://www.ntronline.org</a> -----Original Message----- From: <a href="mailto:ntr_staff-bounces@listsrv.ntronline.org">ntr_staff-bounces@listsrv.ntronline.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:ntr_staff-bounces@listsrv.ntronline.org">ntr_staff-bounces@listsrv.ntronline.org</a>] On Behalf Of Kevin Valentine Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2008 12:37 PM To: NTR Staff Subject: [Ntr_Staff] questions about OSS usage at NTR I know the NTR staff is most likely too busy to fully address any long winded questions right now but I just wanted to throw this one out there for you to think about. I continue to be very curious about the use of Open Source Software (OSS) at NTR. I have many questions but I'll start with just one for now - and it's heavily loaded ;) What does a Linux distribution like Ubuntu require for NTR to use it? Put another way, what is Ubuntu lacking? Best regards, Kevin Valentine NOTICE: Replies to this list go to ALL STAFF _______________________________________________ Ntr_Staff mailing list <a href="mailto:Ntr_Staff@listsrv.ntronline.org">Ntr_Staff@listsrv.ntronline.org</a> <a href="http://listsrv.ntronline.org/mailman/listinfo/ntr_staff" target="_blank">http://listsrv.ntronline.org/mailman/listinfo/ntr_staff</a> No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - <a href="http://www.avg.com" target="_blank">http://www.avg.com</a> Version: 8.0.138 / Virus Database: 270.4.7/1546 - Release Date: 7/11/2008 6:47 AM -- Ubuntu-us-pa mailing list <a href="mailto:Ubuntu-us-pa@lists.ubuntu.com">Ubuntu-us-pa@lists.ubuntu.com</a> Modify settings or unsubscribe at: <a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-pa" target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-pa</a> </blockquote></div> </div>