[ubuntu-us-ma] Ubuntu-us-ma Digest, Vol 38, Issue 10

Daniel Hollocher danielhollocher at gmail.com
Mon Apr 26 03:01:12 BST 2010


Hi Timothy,
I've been wanting to chime in on this conversation myself, but just a
quick response about things becoming polarized about unix.  I just
haven't seen that myself.  I haven't been to the SETC a whole lot, but
I don't think I have seen any discussion on this list about unix, so
I'm not sure why you think there is polarization along those lines.
(or is that the polarization you were talking about?)

I think that linux is enough of a clone of unix that for the purposes
of this discussion, we can just regard unix as another distribution of
free software.  I've read a little bit about the history of unix,
linux, and free software (as they have a common ancestry so to speak),
and I just don't think the difference is all that relevant to the
group.

I think this is more about Ubuntu, the free software community, vs
Ubuntu, the business.

On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 8:52 PM, Timothy Konick <konick781 at gmail.com> wrote:
> From these posts and meetings at the setc it seems as though the some BLU
> members are already ubuntu members but, ubuntu users/'members' of the loco
> are not aware of BLU.  For instance, I had heard it refered to as Boston
> Linux 'Users' group not 'Unix', not a big deal but, for someone like myself
> who is relatively new, and learning(concidence I was thinking unix would be
> cool thing learn)  this feels like two groups that would have a mutally
> beneficial relationship, is becoming quite polarized.
>
> This is coming from a perspective of a moderate user.  If I had not read
> about different distros, these groups come off as mutual exclusive.  Strange
> or ironic FLOSS believers are closed minded in approach.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 2:07 AM, <ubuntu-us-ma-request at lists.ubuntu.com>
> wrote:
>>
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>   1. Re:  Is Ubuntu-centricity holding us back? (J.M. "Peng" Hardin)
>>   2. Re:  Is Ubuntu-centricity holding us back? (Wesley Hirsch)
>>   3. Re:  Is Ubuntu-centricity holding us back? (James Gray)
>>   4. Re:  Is Ubuntu-centricity holding us back? (Bill Simonds)
>>   5. Re:  Is Ubuntu-centricity holding us back? (Bill Ricker)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 08:19:04 -0400
>> From: "J.M. \"Peng\" Hardin" <peng.thinkblue at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [ubuntu-us-ma] Is Ubuntu-centricity holding us back?
>> To: Ubuntu Massachusetts Local Community Team
>>        <ubuntu-us-ma at lists.ubuntu.com>
>> Message-ID:
>>        <j2rb3ac1fbd1004240519w5313d021g1905ec74bfa8f7c0 at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Great questions and comment, all. I haven't been anywhere near as active
>> in
>> the LoCo as I'd like, but would it be possible to set up a secondary but
>> parallel group to promote GNU/Linux in general, without being
>> distro-specific? I'm sure it's a lot more work than I realize, but it
>> might
>> give us the best of both worlds. I'm not sure how realistic the idea is,
>> but
>> I wanted to throw it out in case it's not as idiotic an idea as I think it
>> may be.
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *J.M. "Peng" Hardin
>> *My Blog: I'm Just an Avatar
>> <http://nancib.wordpress.com/>Follow me on Twitter
>> @BostonPeng<http://twitter.com/BostonPeng>
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 12:21:58 -0400
>> From: Wesley Hirsch <emperorshishire at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [ubuntu-us-ma] Is Ubuntu-centricity holding us back?
>> To: Ubuntu Massachusetts Local Community Team
>>        <ubuntu-us-ma at lists.ubuntu.com>
>> Message-ID:
>>        <j2pcaa9dfc1004240921va7ac29c2ma315b3c8d2e47b0b at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Heh... I was just about to suggest that.  Beat me to the punch.  I agree,
>> it's probably a better idea to start a completely new group built around
>> F/OSS ideals.  I don't see a problem with most of us being a part of two
>> similar groups simultaneously, and I'm not entirely sure I wanna forsake
>> the
>> Ubuntu connection if we have a choice.  I think it may be a bad idea to
>> just
>> drop Ubuntu sponsorship, partially because of "Brand Recognition".  Out of
>> all the linux distros out there, Ubuntu is probably the best known to
>> people
>> who don't know anything whatsoever about linux.  On the other hand, I
>> agree
>> with Danny as well that we shouldn't be locking ourselves into one distro,
>> else we face the same kind of problem that proprietary systems face (Sure,
>> we can change it as much as we want, but then it's no longer really
>> Ubuntu,
>> now is it?).
>>
>> --Wesley
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 8:19 AM, J.M. "Peng" Hardin <
>> peng.thinkblue at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Great questions and comment, all. I haven't been anywhere near as active
>> > in
>> > the LoCo as I'd like, but would it be possible to set up a secondary but
>> > parallel group to promote GNU/Linux in general, without being
>> > distro-specific? I'm sure it's a lot more work than I realize, but it
>> > might
>> > give us the best of both worlds. I'm not sure how realistic the idea is,
>> > but
>> > I wanted to throw it out in case it's not as idiotic an idea as I think
>> > it
>> > may be.
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > *J.M. "Peng" Hardin
>> > *My Blog: I'm Just an Avatar
>> > <http://nancib.wordpress.com/>Follow me on Twitter
>> > @BostonPeng<http://twitter.com/BostonPeng>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Ubuntu-us-ma mailing list
>> > Ubuntu-us-ma at lists.ubuntu.com
>> > Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
>> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-ma
>> >
>> >
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 17:17:34 -0400
>> From: James Gray <jamespgray at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [ubuntu-us-ma] Is Ubuntu-centricity holding us back?
>> To: Ubuntu Massachusetts Local Community Team
>>        <ubuntu-us-ma at lists.ubuntu.com>
>> Message-ID:
>>        <t2n1a6cab401004241417l77965f88y23283ee5f87dfc3 at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> I like being part of an *Ubuntu* loco because it is something very
>> specific.  Linux and FOSS are very general.  It is harder to say "a FOSS
>> operating system will meet your needs" when you don't have a particular
>> operating system in mind and different Linux distros cater to such
>> different
>> needs not to mention there are a number of other OS options.
>>
>> I see Ubuntu as a vehicle to permote FOSS adoption rather then an
>> exclusive
>> club.
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 12:21 PM, Wesley Hirsch
>> <emperorshishire at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>> > Heh... I was just about to suggest that.  Beat me to the punch.  I
>> > agree,
>> > it's probably a better idea to start a completely new group built around
>> > F/OSS ideals.  I don't see a problem with most of us being a part of two
>> > similar groups simultaneously, and I'm not entirely sure I wanna forsake
>> > the
>> > Ubuntu connection if we have a choice.  I think it may be a bad idea to
>> > just
>> > drop Ubuntu sponsorship, partially because of "Brand Recognition".  Out
>> > of
>> > all the linux distros out there, Ubuntu is probably the best known to
>> > people
>> > who don't know anything whatsoever about linux.  On the other hand, I
>> > agree
>> > with Danny as well that we shouldn't be locking ourselves into one
>> > distro,
>> > else we face the same kind of problem that proprietary systems face
>> > (Sure,
>> > we can change it as much as we want, but then it's no longer really
>> > Ubuntu,
>> > now is it?).
>> >
>> > --Wesley
>> >
>> > On Sat, Apr 24, 2010 at 8:19 AM, J.M. "Peng" Hardin <
>> > peng.thinkblue at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Great questions and comment, all. I haven't been anywhere near as
>> >> active
>> >> in the LoCo as I'd like, but would it be possible to set up a secondary
>> >> but
>> >> parallel group to promote GNU/Linux in general, without being
>> >> distro-specific? I'm sure it's a lot more work than I realize, but it
>> >> might
>> >> give us the best of both worlds. I'm not sure how realistic the idea
>> >> is, but
>> >> I wanted to throw it out in case it's not as idiotic an idea as I think
>> >> it
>> >> may be.
>> >> ------------------------------
>> >>
>> >> *J.M. "Peng" Hardin
>> >> *My Blog: I'm Just an Avatar
>> >> <http://nancib.wordpress.com/>Follow me on Twitter
>> >> @BostonPeng<http://twitter.com/BostonPeng>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Ubuntu-us-ma mailing list
>> >> Ubuntu-us-ma at lists.ubuntu.com
>> >> Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
>> >> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-ma
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > --
>> > Ubuntu-us-ma mailing list
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 18:37:28 -0400
>> From: Bill Simonds <wtsimonds at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [ubuntu-us-ma] Is Ubuntu-centricity holding us back?
>> To: Ubuntu Massachusetts Local Community Team
>>        <ubuntu-us-ma at lists.ubuntu.com>
>> Message-ID:
>>        <v2ib8abaa791004241537x74de30c8vce7f017cfaa81e3f at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>>
>> I think we need a group devoted to Ubuntu Satanic Edition.
>>
>> http://ubuntusatanic.org/news/
>>
>> I believe that devil worshipers are under represented in society, and
>> we need recognition. Perhaps we could have a sub-group devoted to the
>> Dark Master...
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 23, 2010 at 4:59 PM, Danny Piccirillo
>> <danny.piccirillo at ubuntu.com> wrote:
>> > For a while now, i've been thinking about the possibility of ending our
>> > Ubuntu-centricity. The community is Ubuntu's greatest strength, yet the
>> > community isn't being listened to. More importantly though, i think it
>> > is a
>> > huge disservice to the greater Free Software (aka Open Source) ecosystem
>> > to
>> > have one of the strongest global network of advocates to be banded
>> > around
>> > one distribution. I'd like to propose that we become a general Free
>> > Software
>> > team, and recommend that the rest of the LoCo's do the same.
>> > I can't even think of any pros to being an Ubuntu-only team. Having one
>> > OS
>> > to promote may make certain advocacy easier, but there's no reason why a
>> > general team couldn't make the decision to primarily support Ubuntu in
>> > most
>> > cases. As an official LoCo, we get freebies from Canonical, but i don't
>> > think this is a very big deal. We can make our own CDs and i'm sure if
>> > we
>> > were doing worthy projects, Canonical would still be willing to provide
>> > us
>> > with CDs, as it would be in their interest.
>> > Now, a few of the cons:
>> >
>> > Lack of community input for major decisions and arrogance among those in
>> > charge
>> > Lack of support for educational events,?and it's not hard to see why
>> > since
>> > Canonical may endanger their own educational services?revenue if they
>> > helped
>> > out more.
>> > Alienate the many many non-Ubuntu members of the Free Software community
>> > Being exclusive to Ubuntu makes it hard to reach out to a wider audience
>> > of
>> > people with varying levels of interest from beginners to hardcore
>> > computer
>> > people
>> > We're doing a disservice to the rest of the community by only
>> > acknowledging
>> > one free desktop OS
>> >
>> > I think what we are united around, more so than an OS which, to be
>> > frank, i
>> > don't feel any loyalty towards, is ideals. Yes, i'm sure at least one
>> > person
>> > is thinking that they just care about what tools work, but let's not
>> > forget
>> > to thank the ideals that made these better tools possible. I think most
>> > of
>> > us imagine a world where these ideals are universal, and see an
>> > incredible
>> > amount of potential in that.
>> > If this idea is well-received, we could either just do our own thing or
>> > use
>> > LibrePlanet which is a network that already exists and would be easy to
>> > move
>> > to. I understand some people have some badly tainted perceptions of the
>> > FSF,
>> > but i would have no problem being a part of their extended network.
>> > Either
>> > way, the more i think about it, the more i do think it is appropriate
>> > for
>> > LoCo's to abandon their exclusive-to-Ubuntu nature.
>> > I'm sure you can think of other good reasons as well. We would be giving
>> > up
>> > our Ubuntu exclusivity, but not abandoning Ubuntu. It seems this could
>> > make
>> > our job easier, benefit the greater FLOSS community, and still have no
>> > significant disadvantage for Ubuntu.
>> > Thoughts?
>> > --
>> > .danny
>> >
>> > ??? - http://www.google.com/profiles/danny.piccirillo
>> > Every (in)decision matters.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Ubuntu-us-ma mailing list
>> > Ubuntu-us-ma at lists.ubuntu.com
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>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2010 02:07:26 -0400
>> From: Bill Ricker <bill.n1vux at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [ubuntu-us-ma] Is Ubuntu-centricity holding us back?
>> To: Ubuntu Massachusetts Local Community Team
>>        <ubuntu-us-ma at lists.ubuntu.com>
>> Message-ID:
>>        <j2v54fc5fc01004242307vf58c60b3i5c527672b90eb6db at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Are you suggesting Ubuntu holds back the SETC team mission and SETC holds
>> back the mission to spread Ubuntu to the masses?
>>
>> Or that you want to promote all FLOSS not just one brand?
>>
>> Whenever I was at an installfest, I had by collection of old install disks
>> and recent magazine disks -- if someone had asked for Open Office for
>> Windows or Fedora, I'd have helped install it. It might not be on the
>> menu,
>> but a good kitchen can serve whatever is ordered.  I can support Ubuntu
>> best
>> by not telling someone to run it when it would be the wrong choice for
>> them.
>>
>> We already have in Greater Boston a no-limits Linux User Group, BLU.org,
>> Boston Linux Unix, that does any-distro installfests, and which is open to
>> even commercial Unix -- which explains why it is the only LUG older than
>> Linux. BLU will have a booth at LinuxCon this summer here in Boston.  It
>> could really use some younger members, so Danny and anyone else wishing to
>> be active outside of Ubuntu be welcome to join us there. Last week, we
>> heard
>> about using a commercial product, Dragon Naturally Speaking, under WINE.
>> Upcoming:
>>
>>   1. Wed, May 19, 2010 :: Open Source and Astaro's
>> Business<http://blu.org/cgi-bin/calendar/2010-may>
>>   2. Sat, May 22, 2010 :: Linux InstallFest
>> XXXVII<http://blu.org/cgi-bin/calendar/2010-ifest37>
>>   3. Wed, Jun 16, 2010 :: Secure Data Deletion Under
>> linux<http://blu.org/cgi-bin/calendar/2010-jun>
>>   4. Wed, Sep 15, 2010 :: PGP/GnuPG Keysigning Party XI, plus a talk by V.
>>   Alex Brennan. <http://blu.org/cgi-bin/calendar/2010-sep>
>>
>>
>> Boston is also galactic headquarters for EFF & Gnu.  They support all
>> FLOSS
>> that is free enough by their standards. Good folks, different mission.
>>
>> Having a connection however disfunctional to Canonical and the rest of
>> Ubu-core is what makes *this* Local-Community team unique among LUGs. We
>> can
>> escalate questions through channels. If someone wants help with *buntu,
>> they
>> should want tqgo through this team. This team should not walk away from
>> that.
>>   However, we might not want to be quite so Gnome/U-buntu centric.
>> Especially while the buttons are bollixed and Mono is being pushed, we
>> should consider pushing LUbuntu (Lxde) as the alternative for those that
>> shouldn't be on Kubuntu (KDE), especially since Xubuntu (XFCE) is no
>> longer
>> usable on obsolete hardware.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Bill
>> n1vux at arrl.net bill.n1vux at gmail.com
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