[ubuntu-us-ma] Ubuntu-us-ma Digest, Vol 27, Issue 29 ---$20. for Danny
felicia wichrowski
felicia02652 at yahoo.com
Sat May 23 01:56:49 BST 2009
Hey Danny
Great news on the successful distribution...I'll also kick in $20. to get more printed!
Felicia
CapesTreasures.com
CatLadyDiary.com
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: A Free (Senpaga) Software License (Martin Owens)
2. Re: A Free (Senpaga) Software License (Doc Kinne)
3. Re: A Free (Senpaga) Software License (John Abreau)
4. Re: Anime Boston (Danny Piccirillo)
5. Re: Anime Boston (Martin Owens)
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Message: 1
Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 10:19:17 -0400
From: Martin Owens <doctormo at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ubuntu-us-ma] A Free (Senpaga) Software License
To: kinnerc at gmail.com, Ubuntu Massachusetts Local Community Team
<ubuntu-us-ma at lists.ubuntu.com>
Message-ID: <1243001957.4851.10.camel at delen>
Content-Type: text/plain
Hey Doc,
> While I can understand that from a philosophical perspective, is there a
> software license in existence that prohibits you from selling the
> software for profit?
Yes, there are licenses that are similar to free software licenses by
with none-commercial clauses. But it's no longer Free Software when you
use them. None Commercial clauses (even with Creative Commons) are very
tricky things.
For instance, the Ubuntu desktop training manual produced by Canonical
is CC-BY-NC, this means that if our group was to set up classes where we
charged $20 per class (to encourage people to stick at the class) we
would no longer be able to use the material, even if we donated or
burned all the money.
Your also going to have a bastard of a time with derivative works too,
for instance if I was to take some of your CC-BY-NC-SA work and created
something new from it, you would be unable to sell it or use it in your
business because your company is a commercial entity. You've effectively
cut yourself off from derivative works.
Unless your absolutely sure that you need to commercially exploit this
code (and not services around it) I _highly_ recommend using a normal
Free Software license. No good can come of software with NC clauses.
http://doctormo.deviantart.com/art/Guide-to-Creative-Commons-121927549
Best Regards, Martin Owens
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 11:46:39 -0400
From: Doc Kinne <kinnerc at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ubuntu-us-ma] A Free (Senpaga) Software License
To: Martin Owens <doctormo at gmail.com>
Cc: Ubuntu Massachusetts Local Community Team
<ubuntu-us-ma at lists.ubuntu.com>
Message-ID: <5F94D8F3-BB34-475F-BE81-B685199268D8 at gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Martin:
Thanks. I think. :-)
On 22 May , 2009, at 10:19, Martin Owens wrote:
> Yes, there are licenses that are similar to free software licenses by
> with none-commercial clauses.
Just out of curiosity, can you give me a reference? I'm still not able
to find any.
And now, as far as the software is concerned, its a curiosity concern
now. I was able to convince the team to license the software under
AGPL v3. Our content, so far, is licensed under CC-BY-SA-NC US 3.0.
> But it's no longer Free Software when you use them.
I can see that philosophically. By invoking a noncommercial clause we
are taking away the freedom to "sell" the software.
> None Commercial clauses (even with Creative Commons) are very
> tricky things.
And this is where I find that most intellectual property law, in
addition to being totally broken, is legalistic mind-wanking. :-)
> For instance, the Ubuntu desktop training manual produced by Canonical
> is CC-BY-NC, this means that if our group was to set up classes
> where we
> charged $20 per class (to encourage people to stick at the class) we
> would no longer be able to use the material, even if we donated or
> burned all the money.
Heck, I would argue that we CAN do this - both the MA LoCo and the
AAVSO. The MA LoCo can do it because we're not any sort of recognized
group, so exactly WHO is making a profit? Who is commercially
exploiting the work?
The AAVSO can do it because, as a non-profit we are non-commercial!
Selling a work does not necessarily equate to commercial exploitation.
Also, in the case of the Desktop Training Manual, Canonical is still
the copyright owner of the material. They can waive any and all
licensing restrictions for anyone they want at any time. It would not
surprise me if they put the NA portion on that manual in order to
believe they had that sort of control.
> Your also going to have a bastard of a time with derivative works too,
> for instance if I was to take some of your CC-BY-NC-SA work and
> created
> something new from it, you would be unable to sell it or use it in
> your
> business because your company is a commercial entity.
Ah, but we're not. We're a non-profit.
> Unless your absolutely sure that you need to commercially exploit this
> code
We CAN'T commercially exploit the item. We're a non-profit and it was
financed by public money. At this point we put the NA clause on the
content so that no one else could commercially exploit the content.
> I _highly_ recommend using a normal
> Free Software license. No good can come of software with NC clauses.
As I said, fortunately I was able to make my case with regard to the
software to license it under AGPL 3.0, so as far as the software is
concerned, this is just a case of curiosity now. Also in that point
was that I wanted to use an EXISTING software license. In my mind no
good can come from having yet another software license come into
existence. There are too many now as it is. :-)
Thanks, Martin!!
---
Richard "Doc" Kinne ? Rikardo ?Dok?jo? KINNE, BA, MSc., AMAAS
<kinnerc @ gmail.com> (sent from Ananda)
"I'm the Doctor, and you're in the biggest library in the universe.
Look me up!"
- The Doctor
"Forests of the Dead," Doctor Who
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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 13:23:13 -0400
From: John Abreau <jabr at blu.org>
Subject: Re: [ubuntu-us-ma] A Free (Senpaga) Software License
To: Ubuntu Massachusetts Local Community Team
<ubuntu-us-ma at lists.ubuntu.com>
Message-ID:
<f323b5930905221023l6c41cb2bk98704c8a5187e2c8 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 11:46 AM, Doc Kinne <kinnerc at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I can see that philosophically. By invoking a noncommercial clause we are
> taking away the freedom to "sell" the software.
>
No, it's not at all that simple. That was the whole point. The very concept
of "noncommercial" is imprecise, ambiguous, and a legal quagmire. There's
really no predicting what a judge will decide constitutes "commercial" use if
someone decides to sue.
Slapping a "noncommercial" restriction on a license essentially adds a layer
of FUD and has a chilling effect on serious community developer participation.
--
John Abreau / Executive Director, Boston Linux & Unix
AIM abreauj / JABBER jabr at jabber.blu.org / YAHOO abreauj / SKYPE zusa_it_mgr
Email jabr at blu.org/ WWW http://www.abreau.net / PGP-Key-ID 0xD5C7B5D9
PGP-Key-Fingerprint 72 FB 39 4F 3C 3B D6 5B E0 C8 5A 6E F1 2C BE 99
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 17:51:48 -0400
From: Danny Piccirillo <danny.piccirillo at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ubuntu-us-ma] Anime Boston
To: Ubuntu Massachusetts Local Community Team
<ubuntu-us-ma at lists.ubuntu.com>
Message-ID:
<cc3196b0905221451x64f3b4fdmdd8fa78e9ed728e0 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Great success!!! It's only been a few hours and all of the ubunchu manga's
and CD's have been taken! All of the other flyers have barely been touched.
there will be even more people here tomorrow so if people can pledge to pay
me back I will get a bunch of copies done. I will get as much as I can
afford with what people pledge so the more the better. There's really no way
to keep up with how fast they're being snatched!
Martin, can I get a copy of the booklet we made? And a link to the parson
who made the "stop" page and your wallpaper?
Sent from my G1 Android Phone.
On May 1, 2009 3:17 PM, "Mike Kast" <compcatalyst at gmail.com> wrote:
I'm already registered to go all three days. The flyer table is actually
popular at the con. People go there to check out news and find out about
other cons. There's going to be thousands of attendees this year, so I think
100 may be a good start however 100:to around ten thousand of the already
registered con-goers is a small ratio and I know everyone will want a free
manga, heh.
Thanks and have a great day.
Sincerely,
Mike
On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Danny Piccirillo <danny.piccirillo at gmail.com>
wrote: > > Ooh, yes...
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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 19:04:52 -0400
From: Martin Owens <doctormo at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [ubuntu-us-ma] Anime Boston
To: Ubuntu Massachusetts Local Community Team
<ubuntu-us-ma at lists.ubuntu.com>
Message-ID: <1243033492.8934.3.camel at delen>
Content-Type: text/plain
Hey DPic,
I'm very glad it's going so well.
I'm at Mike's house now and we'll both give you $20 each to repay you
for making more, if you can get us a receipt and you come to the next
meeting to collect. Our only fear is that we don't see you often enough
to be able to give it to you.
Regards, Martin
On Fri, 2009-05-22 at 17:51 -0400, Danny Piccirillo wrote:
> Great success!!! It's only been a few hours and all of the ubunchu
> manga's and CD's have been taken! All of the other flyers have barely
> been touched. there will be even more people here tomorrow so if
> people can pledge to pay me back I will get a bunch of copies done. I
> will get as much as I can afford with what people pledge so the more
> the better. There's really no way to keep up with how fast they're
> being snatched!
>
> Martin, can I get a copy of the booklet we made? And a link to the
> parson who made the "stop" page and your wallpaper?
------------------------------
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