Thoughts of late.

Chance Gooch l337600ch at gmail.com
Sun May 27 18:55:14 BST 2007


       I know what you're saying, Brad, with the idiot IT guys and the
bureaucrats, and I'll even add reluctant teachers and students. My school
district is slowly going over to OpenOffice.org applications, and maybe even
FireFox if I can be a little more convincing, because it's a lot cheaper to
manage/upgrade the free open source stuff, and I already said we're trying
to get over to a couple Linux computers.
       The main problem in our district is the OpenOffice-MicrosoftOffice
transfers. Half of our student body doesn't know how to save an
OpenOffice-wrote file to a Windows .doc format, and complain to us 'computer
geeks' and the computer lab supervisors like it's our fault it won't work
automatically , even though step-by-step instructions are on the marker
board in 10-inch letters! Their complaining makes our computer lab
supervisors complain again to us because we're the ones pushing OpenOffice,
and they're tired of having to deal with it! Then there's the teachers who
have gotten their new 'mini-labs' of four or five computers -installed with
OO- and who are getting frustrated with the same problems! Then, our only
real semi-knowledgeable computer lab supervisor actually made the mistake of
telling the students to save their OO files as .rtf, the so-called
'universal' document file, and complained to ME personally when it wouldn't
work either! I had to explain to her several times that Micro5|-|17, excuse
the L337, read .rtf files differently than any other, just to be different,
and that to really work she needed to have them save files as .doc, the
actual Micro5|-|17 format.

On 5/27/07, Adam Senn <aesenn at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Excellent synopsis!
>
> Brad Luyster wrote:
> > The problem with schools is twofold:
> >
> > First, with Public Primary and Secondary schools, they have policies
> > in place that govern what can and cannot be used.  Generally, anything
> > on the front-end must be based on windows because those are the
> > applications the state has contracts with.  On the back end, things
> > are more flexible, but most of the local sysadmins aren't smart enough
> > or are too ingrained with the microsoft ideal to be able to switch to
> > Linux:  Switching to Linux means you forfeit all state support for
> > your servers.
> >
> > Post-secondary institutions are generally more receptive to these
> > ideas, and a lot of them are already using Linux on the back-end.  The
> > server people aren't the ones you'll have to convince at colleges.
> > The independent academic departments are the ones you have to appeal
> > to.  Computer Science departments aren't a good target because they
> > will usually have Linux machines already, and can't switch entirely to
> > Linux because they have to teach their students how to program windows
> > applications:  Not doing so would be academically negligent.  Business
> > schools are bad targets as well.  They want to teach their kids
> > whatever is in the market:  Business education is primarily
> > reactionary.  Once Linux is on the desktop in business, business
> > schools will teach it.
> >
> > Other departments, it will depend on the Internal IT guy and how much
> > computers are used.  It has been my experience that 90% of the IT guys
> > out there are completely incompetent, and use whatever skills they
> > have to hide their incompetence.  The majority of the rest don't want
> > to learn anything new, and the majority of the rest of THAT don't want
> > to bother with it because they're lazy.  You'll also encounter IT guys
> > that are just irrationally anti-Linux.
> >
> > Basically, what I'm saying is that businesses and schools aren't very
> > good targets in general.  Those conversions hinge on the willingness
> > of the IT guy, and generally they aren't very willing.  We will have
> > far more luck if we push for the average user that wants something
> > different or better or cheaper.
> >
> > Zupht0r
> >
> > On 5/26/07, Chance Gooch <l337600ch at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Hey, I'm Antimatter Redneck.
> >>
> >> I'm not very active, and even a Newbie to using Linux in any form, but
> I
> >> hate Windows with a PASSION, even though I really can't completely get
> rid
> >> of it due to the systems I work with at my school, but me and x626,
> and some
> >> other friends are trying to get our school to go over to Ubuntu,
> instead of
> >> XP and Vista, and might have some luck next year, and I'll be trying to
> >> distribute Ubuntu Linux CDs during my summer at EKU, where I take a few
> >> classes during the summer. I think getting local Comp. Techs to install
> >> Ubuntu as an XP or (especially) a Vista substitute is a GREAT Idea!
> I'm good
> >> buddies with several of the local Techies here in Lincoln County, and
> even
> >> have a pal working with a communications company (They're changing so
> much
> >> now I no longer know what network he works with) and I am trying to
> get all
> >> of them to covertly switch over to installing Linux as a Vista or XP
> >> replacement.
> >>
> >> I recently got ahold of a bunch of Edubuntu CDs, and am thinking of
> donating
> >> them to my school system so that the Techs can put Edubuntu on the
> >> elementary school computers as they get new ones. They've already
> promised
> >> at least one or two Linux-run Dell computers in our High School Library
> >> Media Center next year, so they're starting to transfer over, but it'll
> be
> >> tough.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 5/24/07, Adam Senn <aesenn at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> This is true.  A CD distribution point would still be quite
> beneficial;
> >> but to play devils advocate, what's "in it" for them exactly?   They
> are
> >> indeed in their business for the money, and perhaps they would view a
> free
> >> completing OS would interfere with their existing business model of
> charging
> >> for XP/Vista installs.  Hopefully, we would be able to find some good
> >> stewards of humanity, who are willing to forgo the Microshaft monopoly;
> I
> >> would.  I still believe coming up with a viable "local" Ubuntu model
> would
> >> be our best option, with an ancillary CD distribution point
> alternative.
> >>> I believe the acceptance the general public will have that comes with
> a
> >> locally supported OS may (or may not?) prove to further the Ubuntu
> cause.
> >> It depends on the consumer perhaps.  I'd like to see us strive for the
> local
> >> business model option.  It would be more accepted, if it was
> profitable over
> >> the long term and if it fails with a vendor, ask that they allow us to
> >> distribute CDs through their storefront.  Either way, it would be a
> winning
> >> deal for the FSF and its variants.
> >>> I'm just spouting ideas here.
> >>>
> >>> Adam
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 5/24/07, Eric Lake < ericlake at gmail.com> wrote:
> > There may still be the option there to get them to be a distribution
> > point for the CDs. That and we could let them know that we can offer
> > some support to those that are already running or plan to run Ubuntu.
> > There really would not need to be a business model for that I think. It
> > is just really letting them know about the community and our team.
> >
> > Adam Senn wrote:
> > >>>>> more random nonsensical dribble...
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> We would have to somehow adopt a business model for the local
> Ubuntu
> > >>>>> vendor,
> > >>>>> that would mirror that of Canocial; distribute Ubuntu CDs and
> > install
> > >>>>> options, become Ubuntu certified, and profit off of some kind of
> > >> local,
> > >>>>> onsite support mechanism.  Vendors could offer onsite tech
> support,
> > >> and the
> > >>>>> Ubuntu KY LoCo team could handle the limited support offerings you
> > >> mention.
> > >>>>> If the support business model works for Canocial, it can work for
> > >> local
> > >>>>> vendors too.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I'd assume it would still be a grassroots effort, and they may
> > not see
> > >> a
> > >>>>> real incentive to make the initial Ubuntu offering.  We need to
> show
> > >> that
> > >>>>> there is a demand, as in the case of Dell users on the Ideastorm
> > >> website.
> > >>>>> IMHO, this change in vendor attitude needs to happen in order for
> > >> Ubuntu to
> > >>>>> grab hold in any community; i.e. visibility and local onsite
> > support.
> > >> The
> > >>>>> Dell offering really helps such an initiative.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I think as far as group activities are concerned, it would prove
> > >> beneficial
> > >>>>> for several people to solicit individual local computers vendors
> > >> onsite
> > >>>>> (KYTrade is in my sights); you know mafia style! (kidding); and
> show
> > >> the
> > >>>>> local Ubuntu Business model.  I believe there MUST be a
> replacement
> > >> revenue
> > >>>>> stream if we are to suppose replacing Windows products with free
> > >>>>> alternatives.  Otherwise, they could be hostile towards the idea.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On 5/24/07, Eric Lake < ericlake at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>> That isn't a bad idea. We can even offer (limited) local support
> for
> > >> the
> > >>>>> customers that buy with that option. They may even be willing to
> > be a
> > >> CD
> > >>>>> distribution spot. We have over 300 CDs that we need to be able
> > to get
> > >>>>> into the publics hands before they are obsolete.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Adam Senn wrote:
> > >>>>>> Just an idea to consider....
> > >>>>>> Has anyone given thought to asking local computer builders, such
> as
> > >>>>>> Kentucky
> > >>>>>> Trade, if they would offer installing Ubuntu as an alternative to
> > >>>>> Windows
> > >>>>>> XP/Vista?  This would be a great way to get Ubuntu into the
> > >> mainstream
> > >>>>> on
> > >>>>>> the local level.  Using Dell as a leading example will go a
> > long way
> > >> in
> > >>>>>> convincing them to offer it as an alternative, or those looking
> > for a
> > >>>>>> cheaper solution.
> > >>>>>> I thought about talking to Freddie at KY Trade about this,
> > however I
> > >>>>> feel I
> > >>>>>> probably couldn't do the subject justice.  Plus, we have to
> justify
> > >> the
> > >>>>>> benefits for the vendor, when offering Ubuntu takes away an
> already
> > >>>>> steady
> > >>>>>> revenue stream from XP/Vista installs on new computers.
> > >>>>>> On 5/24/07, Eric Lake < ericlake at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>>> Dear Members of the Kentucky LoCo team,
> > >>>>>>> I have been doing some thinking about the team lately. We are
> > >>>>>>> currently at 64 members according to the launchpad page. I
> > know that
> > >>>>>>> some of you are mostly on the forums and don't use irc much.
> > Others
> > >> of
> > >>>>>>> you are more irc and less on the forums. Still others of you do
> a
> > >>>>>>> little of both. Thats cool.
> > >>>>>>> At this time we are having irc meetings every Thursday night at
> > >> 8:00PM
> > >>>>>>> EST. Is this too often? Should we move to an every other week
> > >>>>>>> schedule? Or even once a month (this may not be often enough
> > >> though)?
> > >>>>>>> We are averaging around 15 members at the meetings (that does
> not
> > >>>>>>> include the bots). That is a big difference from the 64 members
> > >>>>>>> mentioned before.
> > >>>>>>> So far we have done a few events (Install Fest and Release
> Party).
> > >>>>>>> What are some of your ideas for other things to do? How can we
> > >> spread
> > >>>>>>> the word about Ubuntu in our area more effectively?
> > >>>>>>> It is my belief that this needs to be a whole team effort and
> not
> > >> the
> > >>>>>>> work of a few. We have started some sub-teams to handle some
> > of the
> > >>>>>>> things that need to be done (Wiki Web, etc.). There is still a
> lot
> > >> of
> > >>>>>>> work that needs to get done too. We have a team web site now
> > but it
> > >>>>>>> needs some work to make it rock. We would like to start a team
> > blog
> > >> of
> > >>>>>>> what is happening with Ubuntu in Kentucky and get it syndicated
> to
> > >>>>>>> planet.ubutnu-us.org.
> > >>>>>>> Please contribute where you can.
> > >>>>>>> --
> > >>>>>>> Thanks,
> > >>>>>>> Eric Lake
> > >>>>>>> --
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> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> >>>>
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> >>> "The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed
> (and
> >> hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless
> series
> >> of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."   H.L. Mencken
> >>> "The natural course of things is for liberty to yield and government
> to
> >> gain
> >>> ground." Thomas Jefferson
> >>>
> >>> "Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human liberty; it is
> the
> >> argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves."  - William Pitt
> >>> "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like
> fire, a
> >> troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it
> be
> >> left to irresponsible action."
> >>> George Washington
> >>>
> >>>
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> >>
> >> --
> >> Never let Rednecks play with Antimatter, we never know when to say "Hey
> >> y'all, that's 'nuff!" it's always "Hey y'all, watch this!"...
> >>
> >> And then someone's truck is usually blown up.
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-- 
Never let Rednecks play with Antimatter, we never know when to say "Hey
y'all, that's 'nuff!" it's always "Hey y'all, watch this!"...

And then someone's truck is usually blown up.
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