<div dir="ltr">They can't FORCE you to use the OS. The EULA is pretty specific that if you dont agree, decline, and return it to the retailer for a refund. I've had success returning the license to Best Buy before. <div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Sep 13, 2008 at 12:35 PM, Michael Stemle <<a href="mailto:manchicken@notsosoft.net">manchicken@notsosoft.net</a>> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> Well, if you're going to go the tying route you could also point them to the fact that the PC retail industry is also systematically using hardware components that are "designed for Windows" (and they're not ashamed to plaster an ugly sticker on the box to say so) which results in the hardware being non-functional for non-Windows systems.... further forcing users to agree to the Windows agreement and abide by the Microsoft Cartel. Also, most retailers also omit re-install discs on many machines, forcing users to suffer problems long-term, and "encouraging" them to buy non-OEM copies of Windows when they're entitled to a copy of all software purchased on their machine.  Sure you can call and ask for a copy... but I don't think most consumers will think to call the retailer after the warranty runs dry. I don't think much will come of such a complaint though.  These retailers are only involved because they think this is the only way to sell PCs.  Many of them don't give refunds because many of them see themselves as giving windows out for "free" with the PC, so they're essentially attributing no dollar value to the copy of Windows... which begs the question: if Windows has no dollar value at the OEM level, isn't Microsoft essentially gouging its sales by charging so very much higher than market value? <div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"> On Sep 13, 2008, at 06:45 , James Murray wrote: > Request for comments. > > I recently read a few articles of persons (non-US) forcing PC > retailers and/or PC manufacturers to adhere to the Microsoft Vista > End User License Agreement (EULA) when they did not agree with the > EULA and wanted a refund for Vista on their new purchased computer. > They are Linux users.  In the articles I read, they eventually > received a refund in the range of US$50 - US$90. > > Microsoft Vista's EULA states, > "By using the software, you accept these terms. If you do not accept > them, do not use the software. Instead, return it to the retailer > for a refund or credit." > > I decided to determine what the major US PC retailers and > manufacturers will do when a customer requests a refund for Vista on > their new PC.  I contacted the following companies: > Amazon.com, > Tiger Direct, > Buy.com, > Newegg.com, > Circuit City, > Best Buy, > Walmart, > Fry's, > Office Max, > Office Depot, > Micro Center, > CompUSA, and > Staples. > > I asked this > "I am planning on purchasing a notebook computer from your store and > I want to know the refund process for returning Microsoft Windows > Vista that is included with the computer. Per the Microsoft Vista > End Users License Agreement (EULA), since I will not be agreeing to > the EULA (I use Linux), I am to return it to the retailer (you) for > a refund.  Please provide your refund process for Microsoft Windows > Vista when not needed with a new computer." > > All have responded except Fry's and Micro Center.  All of their > responses are documented (emails) except for the telephone > conversations (Walmart, Dell, and a follow up call from Office Depot). > > All stated "no refund" for loaded software.  Dell was the only > company that came close because they directed me to their new PCs > with Open Source OS (Ubuntu). > > I have not finished the investigation (some follow-up communications > required with a few companies and a call to Microsoft for the > refund), but I am thinking of forwarding my entire investigative > report to the Illinois Attorney General and the US Justice Dept. as > a complaint that the PC reseller industry systematically breaches a > contract (MS EULA) and violates US anti-trust laws (tying).  Also, I > may forward the report to local or national media for publication. > > So, any thoughts or comments from the local Ubuntu group?  All > comments, good, bad, nasty, etc., are invited. > > Thanks for your time. > > Best Regards, > Jim Murray > email: <a href="mailto:jmurrayil@yahoo.com">jmurrayil@yahoo.com</a> > (Ubuntu user on 7 PCs) > > > > -- > Ubuntu-us-chicago mailing list > <a href="mailto:Ubuntu-us-chicago@lists.ubuntu.com">Ubuntu-us-chicago@lists.ubuntu.com</a> > <a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-chicago" target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-chicago</a> </div></div>- Michael Stemle <a href="mailto:manchicken@notsosoft.net">manchicken@notsosoft.net</a> <div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c"> -- Ubuntu-us-chicago mailing list <a href="mailto:Ubuntu-us-chicago@lists.ubuntu.com">Ubuntu-us-chicago@lists.ubuntu.com</a> <a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-chicago" target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-chicago</a> </div></div></blockquote></div> </div>