Ubuntu-Chicago School troubles

RJ Marsan rjmarsan at gmail.com
Tue Oct 10 00:57:57 BST 2006


thank you, i will bring that point up with the lawyer.  My dad says that
doesn't matter much, because a school is essentially a dictatorship, and
even if the wording is on my side, their decision is not.

On 10/9/06, Freddy Martinez <freddymartinez9 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> We can organize a small petition and that would go a long way in case the
> school wishes to press charges as we can be "character witnesses".
> Furthermore, please analyze the language. I scanned it quickly and I said:
>
> 10. Intentionally disrupting the use of the YCHS network for other users,
>
> That didn't happen (see footnote 1)
>
>  including but not limited to, (they may get you on this) disruptive use
> of any process, program, or
>  tool for acertaining passwords, (this did happen) or engaging in
> "hacking" of any kind,
>  including, but not limited to, the illegal or unlawful entry into an
>  electronic system to gain secret information"
>
> 1. This is where careful reading is necessary. I believe that you may be
> able to say, no network disruption occured, thereby negating the rest of the
> paragraph. Hopefully you can argue this way, that no disruption occured and
> therefore there was no problem. Also, a slight note, i'm not sure if you've
> heard the phrase "no snitching", but it's part of the G code....yea.
>
> On 10/9/06, RJ Marsan <rjmarsan at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > eh, we have a lawyer, and he said that no news story will help me,
> > because *IM* supposed to be the next news story (they are making an example
> > out of me)
> >
> > > OK, this wasn't done over the network correct? You did this locally
> > with a
> > > LiveCD? If that was the case, they have no grounds for what they did.
> > Here
> > > are you other loopholes, only because whoever wrote the rules is
> > actually a
> > > fairly ignorant person just trying to cover their own ass.
> > >  * Do you guys write programs at school as part of school projects?
> > >     - I am pretty sure you do, so this would be against that rule as
> > well
> >
> > It was done locally under the "techhelp" account on the local windows
> > boxes, which was admin yet left without a password.  But since it was local,
> > yes, it was not done over the network at all.  Also, yes, i have written
> > many programs for Java and C++ that are part of my AP Java class.
> >
> > > Hacking is not bad, cracking is bad. I hate the idiots who can't
> > distinguish
> > > the difference. I actually ahte even more the fact they are put in
> > charge to
> > > provide an education, yet they never educated themselves on said
> > topic.
> >
> > :-( it was hashed, so technically i had to crack it.  but then again,
> > the username wasn't
> >
> > > Have you signed anything that says you will follow the rules you
> > stated about
> > > the hacking crap?
> >
> > yes. but then again i never needed to, it was in the handbook we were
> > given at the beginning of the year.
> >
> > Right now im waiting for the word on what they have decided to do to me,
> > they are "still investigating it" although im not sure what more there is to
> > investigate, i admitted everything as soon as they asked me about it.  I
> > even offered to help, but they didn't like that idea much...
> > This is homecoming weekend, and i spent most of it terrified... oh well,
> > live and learn.
> >
> > > I hope and pray you get through this w/o trouble. I hate to say, I
> > told you
> > > so, but man, I feel bad for you. Anything we can do to help out, we
> > are here
> > > for you RJ! Take care bud!
> >
> > I cant thank you all enough! (especially you nixternal)
> >
> > but my parents have suggested that i find everyone i have helped and ask
> > them to send a letter to the principal to let her know that i am not the
> > "malicious hacker" they make me out to be. (her email address is
> > dsmith at elmhurst205.org)
> >
> > anyways I thank you all for your support, please let me know any more
> > advice you have!
> >
> >
> >
> > On 10/9/06, Richard Johnson <nixternal at ubuntu.com> wrote:
> >
> > >  On Monday 09 October 2006 17:16, RJ Marsan wrote:
> > > > God I gotta love how you all are helping me out here.  I guess i
> > > really
> > > > should go into detail here (though i initially checked my emails to
> > > get
> > > > that physics lab i should be workign on...)
> > > >
> > > > Exactly what happened was this:
> > > > I discovered this "techhelp" account thats a local account that has
> > > admin
> > > > privliges, yet no password
> > > > I used that to run "fgdump"
> > > > I discovered 6 passwords, and verified they worked by logging in to
> > > the
> > > > outside email service (Yes... this is what's gonna kill me)
> > > > Thats it.  I never tampered with any files, never "disrupted" the
> > > system.
> > >
> > > It is killing you without a doubt right now.
> > >
> > > > In all technicality, the school rule book is littered with
> > > "including but
> > > > not limited to"'s  but in the exact words:
> > > > "Improper use of the YCHS Network is prohibited.  Uses of teh YCHS
> > > network
> > > > taht are prohibited include, but are not limited to:
> > > > ...
> > > > ...
> > > > ... (stuff about drugs, pornogrophy, gambling)
> > > > 10. Intentionally disrupting the use of teh YCHS network for other
> > > users,
> > >
> > > OK, you never disrupted the network
> > >
> > > > including but not limited to, disruptive use of any process,
> > > program, or
> > > > tool for acertaining passwords, or engaging in "hacking" of any
> > > kind,
> > > > including, but not limited to, the illegal or unlawful entry into an
> > >
> > > > electronic system to gain secret information"
> > >
> > > OK, this wasn't done over the network correct? You did this locally
> > > with a
> > > LiveCD? If that was the case, they have no grounds for what they did.
> > > Here
> > > are you other loopholes, only because whoever wrote the rules is
> > > actually a
> > > fairly ignorant person just trying to cover their own ass.
> > > * Do you guys write programs at school as part of school projects?
> > >      - I am pretty sure you do, so this would be against that rule as
> > > well
> > >
> > > Hacking is not bad, cracking is bad. I hate the idiots who can't
> > > distinguish
> > > the difference. I actually ahte even more the fact they are put in
> > > charge to
> > > provide an education, yet they never educated themselves on said
> > > topic.
> > >
> > > They can't prove the "to gain secret information" as you didn't have
> > > any in
> > > possession. Plus, you didn't gain access illegally as the username you
> > > had
> > > was open to the public apparently. Even discovering those 6 passwords
> > > isn't
> > > illegal. I think they may have blown this out of proportion, but then
> > > again,
> > > this is coming from a technical standpoint, as I can understand the
> > > ignorant
> > > bureaucrat known as a teacher or principle.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > So, to me at least, it sounds like i need to have "disrupted" the
> > > use of
> > > > the network in order to have broken a rule, somethign i certainly
> > > never
> > > > did. also, they mention numerous times that all student email and
> > > > information is never  private, and all students must sign a form
> > > > aknowlaging this.
> > >
> > > Have you signed anything that says you will follow the rules you
> > > stated about
> > > the hacking crap?
> > >
> > > >
> > > > hope this helps.
> > > >
> > > > Also, the IT guys have already patched the holes, and, at least as
> > > of now,
> > > > are refusing to accept my offer to help them with any futher
> > > securety
> > > > measures.
> > >
> > > I am surprised by the fact they have people intelligible enough to
> > > provide
> > > that service.
> > >
> > > Check this out, it is 3 years old, but you can see this guy did
> > > something
> > > similar to you, and didn't get busted.
> > >
> > > http://www.modbee.com/local/story/6314333p-7264093c.html
> > >
> > > I think in order for you to get past this w/o any ramifications, you
> > > are going
> > > to need a lawyer. This on your school record could haunt you for a
> > > long time
> > > to come. You need to fight this, your parents need to fight it even
> > > more.
> > > They need to be at all of the board meetings as well.
> > >
> > > I hope and pray you get through this w/o trouble. I hate to say, I
> > > told you
> > > so, but man, I feel bad for you. Anything we can do to help out, we
> > > are here
> > > for you RJ! Take care bud!
> > >
> > > --
> > > .:Richard Johnson
> > > .:nixternal at ubuntu.com
> > > .: ubuntu.com .:kubuntu.com .: edubuntu.com .: xubuntu.com
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Ubuntu-us-chicago mailing list
> > > Ubuntu-us-chicago at lists.ubuntu.com
> > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-chicago
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > Ubuntu-us-chicago mailing list
> > Ubuntu-us-chicago at lists.ubuntu.com
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-us-chicago
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> -Freddy Martinez-
> Kubuntu. [GNU/]Linux for human beings.
> </message>
>
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