[Ubuntu-US-CA] LoCo Contact Forwards

[Jack Deslippe]

Robert et. al.,

I hope you do read this email... While I think you are right that a lot of
what has been sent back and forth on the mailing list (and despite your best
efforts apparently in multiple private conversations between the three
'decision makers' on this issue as well as among yourself, Grant and Neal)
is no more than drama about particular instances.

However, the underlying push towards a more structured group with a
guarantee of equality for all members (founder included) is absolutely not
drama. It is something that needs to be worked out for many people to feel
comfortable contributing to the group without hesitation and to provide
continuity and security for the organization. I find it incredibly difficult
to get excited about participating further in a group where I am unsure who,
at the end of the day, has control over my contributions and one in which I
have no assurance that I am an equal member (or could ever grow to be and
equal member) in the organisation, in the sense of making decisions,
resolving conflicts and choosing leadership directions. We are already a
large group, representing a State bigger than many countries, and it is time
we got a structure fit for managing that type of membership and area. I
absolutely think that this is the root cause of the groups problems, and not
a symptom. Until we come up with some sort of constitution that gives people
the assurance of a fair, equal and democratic (or republican) treatment and
consideration of their contributions, the group is just going to get
sicklier.

Some may see this email as simply adding to the “drama,” since I am
undoubtedly a good personal friend of Grant, as almost everybody who has
worked with him is. I am, however, sure that everyone who knows and works
with Neal can insure me (who still has not had the pleasure of meeting Neal
in person) that he is likewise easy to get along with and quite a swell
dude.  He is also in no small way deserving of the current leadership role
he maintains and has, in general, done a kick ass job guiding the group.
But for the health and growth of the group, I think it is important to
define a more general structure at this point.  The issue between Grant and
Neal is, thus, not about who is a better person or who is right or wrong.
What I see is a case of “two members arguing.”  Which is more or less common
and healthy in any group.  The problem I see is that one of those two people
apparently holds the power in the group – enough to censor the others'
messages to the list and contributions to the wiki. This seems unfair,
undemocratic and not indicative of a robust and well thought-out structure
for the LoCo. And, it makes me very uncomfortable. In my opinion, Robert,
the “drama” is the particular argument at hand, but the creation of a group
structure guaranteeing fairness and equality - that's not drama; thats
something that needs to get done. And, undoubtedly, most of the decisions
individuals complain about now will not be overturned, but at least those
individuals will know that the decisions were based on a fair examination of
their contributions by equals.

-Jack

On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 5:27 PM, Robert Wall <robert at rww.name> wrote:

> I'm replying to the parts of this directed at me.
>
> On Fri, 2009-10-02 at 11:01 -0700, Grant Bowman wrote:
> > Robert, I talk with you approximately every other week in person for
> > several hours at www.dvlug.org and you have not to my recollection
> > brought this up, and certainly not "recently."  I'm baffled at what
> > Neal represents is your current stance on this issue.
>
> The last time you forwarded something here was Wednesday, which I note
> is after the last time I saw you in person. I have not had any chance to
> discuss anything with you in real time since then. As far as your
> bafflement goes, 1) Neal did not misrepresent my stance, 2) my reply to
> your private email to me yesterday makes that abundantly clear:
>
> On Thu, 2009-10-01 at 01:55 -0700, Robert Wall wrote:
> > Neal asked us what we thought about your forwarded emails. We agreed
> > that it isn't really appropriate for you to forward emails directly
> > from loco-contacts, as I believe Neal has explained to you already.
> > Since contacting you about it privately and asking you to stop did not
> > yield a useful response from you, and you in fact continued, we agreed
> > that moderation is necessary until you discuss it further.
>
> If you didn't understand part of it, I would have expected your next
> private emails to me to ask me a question about it, but they didn't.
>
> If I had a problem with Neal's representation of my opinion, I would
> obviously have posted to the list about it. I'm not in the habit of
> sending "Me too" emails, because I see them as a waste of everyone's
> time.
>
> > The time spent on this new issue has also been significant.
>
> Yes, it has, and I have better things to do than engage in this sort of
> politics. Good luck to whichever one of y'all next tries to figure out
> how to fix this team, because you'll need it.
>
> I will be ignoring further messages (from anyone) about these issues and
> whichever ones pop up in the future, because it is evident that my
> involvement in all this has yet to help. I'll continue my various
> responsibilities in this team, including list moderation, but am going
> to be making every effort to stay out of the way of this team's drama,
> because I am sick and tired of it. Attending meetings, going to events?
> Yes. Getting involved when said meetings get dramatic? No. Reading the
> next drama thread that pops up on here? Also no.
>
> What's that quote? "I am because we are"? Well, right now I am very,
> very tired of all this.
>
> ~ Robert
>
> --
> Robert Wall  robert at rww.name
>    Webpage  http://rww.name/
>    GPG key  0x0CBC1491
>
> --
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>
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