I think you raise some important concerns, Alan. As a Gnome user, I can't really say I've had much recent experience beyond a cursory glance at KDE 4 but I think this leads to an interesting question: If we're to advocate Linux [and as far as this list is concerned, Ubuntu] should we be concentrating our advocacy on the LTS release? It's all too easy for anyone on this list to get carried away with the latest and greatest but the vast majority of those we're trying to introduce Linux to are used to the years between each Windows release. Should we be concentrating on introducing them to a release which is intended to be around for a number of years and expected to have a certain level of stability and accessibility? It would have been interesting to hear other people's views. Regards Bruce (this subject would have been a good topic for last night's recording of the podcast - maybe the next one?) <div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 11:03 AM, alan c <<a href="mailto:aeclist@candt.waitrose.com">aeclist@candt.waitrose.com</a>> wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> I have just tried kubuntu 8.10 Live CD for the first time and I am deeply troubled by what I find. I have had difficulty trying to run it, and when I have found a machine and a way to run it, I find I am then totally confused. This is all bad news for advocacy activities - I am an energetic advocate and have a monthly place in my local computer fair and give talks to clubs etc also. I have found that KDE (kubuntu) has been very useful because for some windows escapees it is easier to relate to than gnome. I also use kubuntu for my elderly friends because it has a more feature rich  experience and this is useful - including for ex windows users. I should perhaps mention that I have both gnome and kde installed on all of my own machines. I have tried kubuntu 8.10 live cd in four machines, 3 desktops and a laptop, first as normal then as Safe Graphics mode. The laptop gave no display at all. On all of the desktop PCs normal graphics did not work at all. Safe Graphics mode was required but on one PC the low resolution was unusable as an initial experience. With another of the PCs the display would not start - I had to use ctrl alt backspace to restart the xserver, then it displayed.  The final PC worked. Unfortunately I then found that trying to use this (kde4.1?) environment left me totally confused. I am not saying that personally I can not or will not find out how to use it, I am saying that as a newcomer to the environment, and most particularly as a possible newcomer from windows to linux, it would be a non starter.  From the point of view of a total newcomer to linux (Kubuntu that is) - this experience would be out of the question. It would certainly not endear an unsuspecting newcomer to the kubuntu experience. I regret I must now change my advocacy strategy and simply stop offering kubuntu! At least until both - it works in typical PCs - and also something is offered that a new user can relate to! This is a blow because kubuntu has been a most useful weapon in my armoury to attract windows escapees. For me personally, I am sure that I can discover, ask, experiment, and enjoy what is offered as the future unfolds, but I will continue to use kde3 for a long time yet, I suspect, to get my work done. Also, this message is the last one in which I will use a sig which advertises kubuntu because - particularly in the non computer related forums I use - I will not want to encourage new users into what is currently a difficult experience. -- alan cocks Kubuntu user#10391 Linux user #360648 -- <a href="mailto:ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com">ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com</a> <a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk" target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk</a> <a href="https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/" target="_blank">https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/</a> </blockquote></div>