I think we are actually agreeing.  The start of this particular line of conversation was somebody saying that Linux wasn't doing enough to make installation of wireless cards simple and reliable... my point was that most of the cards that I am using now appear to work pretty much "out of the box" in Gutsy (and with some in Feisty, Edgy etc.) so I don't need to do the whole ndiswrapper thing... In fact, when I reinstalled my old laptop which had died for some years after an unfortunate incident with a glass of wine and a fizzing motherboard (!) I discovered that whilst Gutsy works 100% well straight away Windows XP does anything but, arguing that the graphics card isn't the one it's expecting but offering no advice on fixing it other than a "Browse" and a suggestion to insert some sort of driver CD. How's that helpful? It makes me think that if Windows users actually had to occasionally install their own OS they'd find Windows was significantly harder to make work than Linux - it's therefore all a myth this concept that Windows is "easy"... it's only "easy" because the "norm" is to buy a pre-installed PC ! Sean