[ubuntu-uk] Upgrading to 12.04 ....

Alan Bell alanbell at ubuntu.com
Mon Apr 30 08:35:06 UTC 2012

On 29/04/12 22:54, alan c wrote:
> On 29/04/12 21:04, Alan Bell wrote:
>> it says "do you want to upgrade?" and you can say yes or no to it.
>> Clearly "yes" is the preferred option, but why shouldn't we encourage
>> people to upgrade to new cool stuff that will make their experience
>> better (which is the aim of it, sometimes that doesn't work out so 
>> well)?
> Why? because some regular users like my 80+ year old friend (sadly now 
> no longer with  us) easily confuse an up'date' with an up'grade'. 
> Whereas updates are usually fairly safe, upgrades are not. 
that is the bit that needs fixing, an upgrade should be as safe as an 
update. I did have a problem with an upgrade to 12.04 around the time of 
alpha1 but I think that bug got fixed, I have not seen it on any other 
> Upgrade and update sound similar and seem similar. They appear even in 
> the same window in the same situation.
they do sound a bit similar, but it isn't the same window at all, I 
don't see how it could be more different without going down the Windows 
route of not offering online upgrades and making you get a CD (if you 
are on an LTS we don't offer the upgrade until the next LTS is out)

I was going to do more screenshots but my son got up early and found his 
laptop and pressed forward or next or confirm until it finished because 
he wanted to play games on CBBC.

> Some users are ordinary non technical people. Update or upgrade is all 
> the same to them. One can consider that such ordinary human beings 
> are, or are not,  capable of using the first user account to have 
> access to the admin level. My 92 year old relative, who only does 
> online shopping and is closely administered by tech family members if 
> changes are needed has a restricted account, but it is not appropriate 
> for an independent active 84 year old who goes to windows club every 
> week and uses Windows (was XP) routinely, and can and does expect to 
> install stuff from say the ubuntu software centre when he needs to in 
> his dual boot laptop.
> There are strong moves to make Ubuntu good for a vast user base, but 
> many existing users are diy users like my 80+ friend, and in terms of 
> a discussion list like this one, they are novices and do not know 
> what, say, a partition is, like most Windows users don't.
> It is such users that will get tripped up by Upgrade vs Update. This 
> is especially because the enthusiasm of our community and devs to 
> encourage upgrades is aimed at the traditional enthusiast linux based 
> os user, not the less competent  joe or jane. Version upgrades are 
> notified by default and the reason a health warning would be 
> appropriate is because the least technical user is *likely* to fall 
> for it, like my friend.
well it is nice to get people upgraded because the new stuff is better. 
I wouldn't want to get into a situation where we leave people on old 
versions like people who bought a computer with Windows ME or Vista.
> Or will we move to a discussion about the wrong sort of leaves on the 
> track or the wrong sort of users for Ubuntu, I trust not. It is the 
> sort of thing which will hopefully get addressed  before too long, now 
> that unity is  finding its feet. But it is an important type of issue 
> and it is something which (Windows etc) are well versed at, although 
> they have a knack of being condescending, and somehow untrustworthy.
no, Ubuntu should be for all users, as should upgrades.
> This danger of 'relatively little knowledge' only exists in some 
> areas, not all. Many aspects of Ubuntu really are very good for 
> novices, I have many examples.
> However because the main user base currently has to self install, the 
> less-technical end of this group can get trouble from information 
> intended mostly for more experienced users.
> Not an upgrade situation: but a novice danger example was ubuntu 10.10 
> cd where one of the options for install caused loss of all the other 
> partitions on the disc. This problem was a severe problem, but 
> fortunately relatively few people chose the problem option. Of course, 
> I did (!) and lost multiple OS's on the test machine, but then I had 
> images. The problem remained unchanged throughout the life of 10.10. 
> Even Mint had the same bug, they did not seem to think it important! 
> My point here is that although such problems can be coped with by 
> techy enthusiasts they are much more serious for novice but slightly 
> adventurous Windows users, who have may have been encouraged by friends.
that would be a release critical bug, and yes I know about that one and 
it is a heap easier to fix that before the CD images are created. That 
is why we want people to test the upgrades before release, if that one 
was found by someone before release it would have delayed the launch.
> The sort of trouble that some users can get themselves into - a type 
> of user that we deliberately are aiming to increase in numbers - 
> continues to need a type of design vigilance which is a bit unusual in 
> the GNU/Linux world.
it needs more testing on more diverse hardware and from more diverse 
situations prior to the CDs being pressed. Upgrades work perfectly on 
lots of common hardware if you install 10.04 or 11.10 and then upgrade 
without messing about with it. The problem is that people do mess about 
with it (and quite rightly so). The upgrade scenario isn't always as one 
would find in a lab.

I work at http://libertus.co.uk

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