[ubuntu-uk] I'm new

[Tony Pursell]

On Fri, 2011-07-29 at 11:31 +0100, Avi Greenbury wrote:
> Tony Pursell wrote:
> 
> > It does seem that Ubuntu is unprepared to meet the support needs of
> > the type of general, every day user that it wants (I assume) to
> > attract. If we were a commercial organisation, all the support
> > workers would be trained and there would be a common approach.
> 
> Canonical, the commercial organisation, is configured so. I don't
> think you'll ever have a provided-in-free-time sort of support
> arrangement that matches up to the sorts of things that that the paid
> for ones do in terms of maintaining a low level of technical

But this doesn't mean we shouldn't try to improve the level of free
support.

> understanding - I'm generally of the opinion that a difficult answer
> that might need research is better than no answer at all, and that's
> what I'll provide if I've not got the time to explain the meaning. 

But isn't this the way the sort of problem that started this thread
arose?

> 
> And sometimes you *need* some level of technical interference becasue,
> well, that's what's being asked for by someone who needs to compile a
> module for their audio chipset or whatever. In which case, IRC is not
> the place to explain the hows and whys, it's a place to post a link to
> where somebody has already published such.

Agreed. If someone asks for support to compile something, then the
explain how, but don't just wade in and say 'compile this' if you don't
yet know the user's level of expertise.

> 
> > Maybe it is time Ubuntu thought a bit more about how support is given
> > through the community. Perhaps even devise an on line training
> > course. 
> 
> There is one:
> http://www.ubuntu.com/support/training/course-types

You cannot expect volunteers to pay for training.  

> 
> > Looking at the Ubuntu support page, the first port of call given for
> > support is Launchpad Answers, where I hang out giving support for
> > Libre/OpenOffice.  I prefer it to IRC because I can give a more
> > rounded and considered answer. 
> 
> I find Ubuntu Answers to have a horrendous UI. In my experience, most
> searches for ubuntu-related problems turn up links to posts on
> ubuntuforums.com, so I tend to assume that's the more, er, canonical

I do sometimes suggest a forum for some technical problems but most of
the LO/OOo questions are answered in situ.  Launchpad Answers has some
nice features. Like I have nominated myself as a Answer contact for LO
and OOo, so I get questions emailed to me.  That is far more efficient
than lurking in forums waiting for appropriate questions.

> place for support. It's also got a navigable interface, which is nice. 
> > are bound to get more of the 'sudo apt-get install whatnot' type
> > replies which baffle the non-tech users.  
> 
> I don't think this is a reson to stop giving such answers. I think,
> perhaps, we just need a page to explain all the 'simple' things that
> the users might come across (like these instructions) that the visitors
> can be linked to. Repeatedly re-explaining the basics of everything is
> not something that's going to happen.

In Launchpad you can create FAQs and reference to them.  It is a rather
under used facility but I have set up a few for common questions that
need a lot of explaining (like doing labels using a spreadsheet as the
data source).  But simple topics like using a terminal could be covered
this way.

> 
> > Even in Launchpad you still get a lot of this type of answer or a
> > quick link to a very technical forum post.  I even find the new Ask
> > Ubuntu to be pitched at a high technical level. But, perhaps this is
> > the way it seems as, like in many forums and IRC, all manner of
> > issues are put into the same pot whereas Launchpad tries to separate
> > out queries by package, and LO/OOo queries tend to be quite simple.
> 
> It's support provided by technical people in their spare time. It's
> likely to be techincal because that's their default position, and
> they're not trained to assume that everybody doesn't know what they do.
> 

Oh dear!  I think this is exactly the problem that brought this thread
into existence in the first place and the reason I feel that something
needs to be done about it.  

> 
> Rather than try to make all the answers easy to understand, I think
> it'd be better to concoct some way to make it such that the askers feel
> that they are allowed to (or should) ask for clarification. Or, perhaps
> rather, make it really easy to find this clarification already extant.

If I think my explanation might fall short, I always invite the user to
ask me for further clarification.  I have already suggested how FAQs in
Launchpad could provide a source of clarification.

> If we just mandate that all the answers should be aimed at
> non-technical users, we risk alienating the more technical people who
> provide those answers.
> 

If technical people cannot provide non-technical answers, when needed,
then they should be encouraged to refrain from giving answers, otherwise
you get exactly the problem that brought this thread into existence in
the first place. 

> -- 
> Avi
> 

Tony