[ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu/Linux is still not an OS for the masses - discuss

Wed Oct 13 16:35:00 BST 2010

If you ask me (and I know noone did) there will ALWAYS be as many
people claiming "it worked perfectly without any configuration at all"
as there are people who claim "it was a nightmare, I couldnt get it to
work and I couldnt get any help either" regardless of whether its
Linux/Windows/ OSX etc. This debate rages in Car/Motorcycle forums as
well that I'm part of as well with people almost fighting to claim
each side of the story.
The fact is there will always be good and bad examples of experiences
with any "product", simple as that. I agree, feeling like you are not
being helped enough by the Ubuntu community must be very frustrating,
but considering how much we pay where I work for our Microsoft Volume
Licensing the amount of help, or should I say lack of help we get from
MS is shocking. Almost every fix I have ever implemented in my entire
15yr IT career has come from forums and word of mouth, or just plain
old fault finding.
I could name many people who have installed Windows out of the box
with no issues, whatsoever, and many who have had an absolute
nightmare. I'm sure the same goes for Ubuntu but in my opinion the
help and resources for help from Microsoft are no better than for
Ubuntu/Linux so if you arent getting the answers you need, either you
need to shout louder, or maybe you are asking in the wrong "forum"
(not literal).
Paul.

----- Original Message -----
From: UK Ubuntu Talk 
To:"UK Ubuntu Talk" 
Cc:
Sent:Wed, 13 Oct 2010 16:19:56 +0100
Subject:Re: [ubuntu-uk] Ubuntu/Linux is still not an OS for the
masses - discuss

 On 13/10/10 16:09, Alan Pope wrote:
 > On 13 October 2010 14:54, John Matthews wrote:
 >> On 13/10/10 13:49, Alan Pope wrote:
 >>> It's easy if you know what you're doing. Same as rocket science
or
 >>> brain surgery. It's all about perspective. Many people who say
'ubuntu
 >>> is easy' are almost always people who have had the pain of
 >>> administering Windows systems for years and come to Ubuntu with
that
 >>> baggage. They probably find that Ubuntu fits their brain better
and
 >>> they feel at home with the way stuff works.
 >>>
 >> But that is what I mean, you have years of experience, and to you
its
 >> second nature. I have spent almost 4 years struggling to keep my
Ubuntu
 >> working. I never had problems like this on windows, I was even
able to
 >> help other people with windows problems.
 > You're missing my point, and illustrating it perfectly. People
seem to
 > have an expectation that you should be able to install Ubuntu and
it
 > works out of the box with zero effort, zero learning and no issues
 > whatsoever. That expectation isn't levelled at any other OS, so
why
 > Ubuntu?
 >
 > You probably haven't had many Windows operating system upgrades
over
 > the years either. We've released 2 versions a year since 2004.
 >
 > I bought a Mac for the first time last year having never owned
one. It
 > was a steep learning curve learning OSX, but I didn't complain
that it
 > was broken.
 >
 >> But at least, if there is a problem, somebody is there to help.
You know
 >> exactly what I mean there.
 > Yes, there is someone there to take your money, delete viruses and
 > reinstall the OS. There's very little else they help with. Ask
them
 > how to do mail-merge with Microsoft Word and Microsoft Access and
see
 > how far you get.
 >
 > If you have a problem with Windows you get help from a Windows
expert
 > (in this case Dixons).
 >
 > If you have a problem with Ubuntu, you get help from an Ubuntu
expert.
 >
 > How is this different?
 >
 >>>> Windows as much as I hate it, is easier to set up than Ubuntu.
 >>> I disagree. I recently installed Windows XP on my desktop
computer for
 >>> some light gaming. It took the best part of a day to get the OS
and
 >>> all the necessary patches and drivers located and installed.
Some of
 >>> the drivers are quite hard to find. The printer driver alone was
 >>> hundreds of megs download. Even if I used the most up to date
Windows
 >>> 7 DVD it would still require significant pain to setup.
 >>>
 >>> With Ubuntu I put the CD in, ran the installer and all the
updates and
 >>> software I needed was done in an hour and two reboots.
 >>>
 >> That is you, you have the knowledge to deal with a problem, so it
is
 >> going to be easy for you, your not really a good example of
somebody who
 >> is new to Ubuntu.
 > You missed my point. My point was that it is not "easy" to install
 > Windows, and I've been doing it for years. It's tedious, painful
and
 > time consuming. Ubuntu installed on the same machine in a fraction
of
 > the time with no problems.
 >
 >>> I have had very few calls from my mum asking for help with her
Ubuntu
 >>> system. She uses the same kinds of apps most people do.
 >> Sorry, but from somebody who has had to struggle since I
installed this,
 >> and still cannot get answers to problems I posted about years
ago, such
 >> as my network shares, video not working, and other minor things,
I still
 >> say sorry but that is wrong.
 >>
 > Please don't tell me my own experience is wrong. It's an
indisputable
 > fact that I have had less calls for help from my mum using Ubuntu
than
 > I have from my sister using XP.
 >
 > Al.
 >

 Yeh, but there you go, for you, its never a problem, so it shouldnt
be a 
 problem for anybody else. And as for getting help from Ubuntu, that
isnt 
 easy either, if it was, I still wouldnt have problems with my
network 
 shares and videos problems. I would be able to use my numbers at the

 side of the keyboard after asking for help. And I wouldnt be 
 continuously reminded that you volunteer for help, and I shouldnt
expect 
 it. Which has been told be on quite a few occasions. So, you'll have
to 
 excuse me if I still say, I find windows easier, and most of the
time, 
 it work out of the box, far quicker than getting Ubuntu to work out
of 
 the box. That is coming form about 4 years of trying to get my
Ubuntu to 
 work properly. So sorry, its not about telling you your experience
is 
 wrong, its telling your my experience. And I wouldnt be told when
trying 
 to get help, buy a better computer. That isnt help.

 John.

 -- 
 Ubuntu User #30817

 -- 
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https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk [2]
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