<br><br>Michal Karnicki <<a href="mailto:michal.karnicki@canonical.com">michal.karnicki@canonical.com</a>> 於 2015年4月1日星期三寫道：<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think iPhone, Windows Phone and Android (among others) use different formats. Transifex seems to support po files, though [1]</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Hey all, I wanted to open up with saying THANK YOU to your sustained contributions to translations. It's an amazing and helpful community we have here. I had a discussion with David, which I'd like to summarize here.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Let me first say that I am very happy and pleased Telegram team was kind enough to agree to open up Transifex for Telegram for Ubuntu translation. They're amazing bunch of folks, and I think this shows they care about Telegram presence on other platforms as well. While re-using string translations done for other Telegram clients in Transifex sounds promising and encouraging, there is a concern whether at current stage of our project it wouldn't introduce coordinating issues. I won't get too much into detail now, but after listening to David's opinion I recognize those matters.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">However, since this was brought up by Ask, I would be keen to know whether community would be willing to do the following research work that would bring us closer to making good use of Transifex, should we choose to do so in the future.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Please voice in whoever's familiar with Transifex translations. Android app uses this sort of compressed string placeholders, like, for "Secret chat cancelled" you would have something like (just an example) "SecretCancel" placeholder in the source, which in turn is translated to 'Secret chat cancelled' in different languages. Does Transifex suggestion engine (for already translated strings) make use of those placeholders as keys? *If* it does, it would be interesting to evaluate how much effort it would be to:</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">1) replace all strings the source with placeholders (re-using as much placeholders from other clients as possible, say Android - as we used that to model our own client)</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">2) ensure this doesn't do havoc in already made Launchpad translations (i.e. we have to distinguish here that we're making use of msgid field, not msgstr)</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">If that is possible, I would expect we can have ~95% strings covered in our app based on strings from other clients. At the same time, I would like to make sure that our translators community efforts are preserved, if we do decide to make the switch eventually.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">To conclude - we're sticking for Launchpad translations for time being, but it would be great if anyone interested could explore the above mentioned area, that I'm currently simply not at capacity that I could address it myself (or at least on my own :) ).</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Let me know what you think, have a great day,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">karni</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div><br></div><div>From my view as an translator, Transifex is just another translation platform. I would like my workflow on ubuntu translation could be done toally on Launchpad without creating another account and translate just for one app. </div><div><br></div>However, translators have to have some conversations with those translators on Transifex to make the translated terms consistent on all platforms which Telegram translation style guide asks. [1]<div><br></div><div>I think the problem is more about the ways of cooperation than choices of translation platform.<br><div><br></div><div>It is more comfortable that we stick to Launchpad.</div><div><br></div><div>1. <a href="https://core.telegram.org/translating_telegram">https://core.telegram.org/translating_telegram</a></div><div> </div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">[1] <a href="http://docs.transifex.com/developer/formats/gettext" target="_blank">http://docs.transifex.com/developer/formats/gettext</a></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 at 11:53 AM, marcoslans <span dir="ltr"><<a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','marcoslans@hotmail.com');" target="_blank">marcoslans@hotmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"> <br> <div> <pre>So Telegram translations in Transifex use xml format not po format. Merging would be a hard job for most of translators. On 01/04/15 10:50, Ask Hjorth Larsen wrote: > Thank you karni :) > > So in conclusion, I understand that some advantage can be gained by > merging, but it's probably difficult to achieve automatically in a > meaningful way. Translators could do it though by downloading the > po-files and running msgmerge. Thank you! > > Best regards > Ask > > 2015-03-31 18:18 GMT+02:00 Michal Karnicki <a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','michal.karnicki@canonical.com');" target="_blank"><michal.karnicki@canonical.com></a>: >> Hi Ask (what a nice, interesting name! :) ), >> >> a) Yes, I've been pointed to Transifex documentation by rvr. It's great they >> also support po files! >> >> b) when I said UI flows I rather meant things like "ok, Android doesn't have >> this dialog, but has one button more here" or "they don't support entering >> contact phone [imported from phone book], so we'll need to figure which >> other strings can we use here", etc. Meaning, the UI's are not same, but >> indeed very close. I guess if we reused their strings, but ended up with a >> couple untranslated, would still be a fantastic opportunity. >> >> c) Yes. Telegram for Ubuntu was Canonical effort to have a usable instant >> messenger for the phone (I won't get here into much detailed plans around >> that), but as you know - Canonical isn't a big company, so ideally we'll >> arrive at the point where the code base is much more inviting and we could >> sustain it with community contributions. Going back to the subject - the >> UI's are very similar, but the strings are not reused (you may have noticed >> Android uses short compressed strings as keys for translating, whereas our >> QML already contains English phrases. If we wanted to reuse that, we would >> have to go through the whole source, and replace our text with those >> key-placeholders, for which I know I don't have time :( ). >> >> Certainly the strings are reused visually - we took what we saw in Android >> Telegram UI and added stuff to Telegram for Ubuntu, so while it's not >> feasable with current resources, it's something (re-use of strings) that we >> could certainly do with some community help (community in general, I'm not >> thinking specifically about translators here, notably because this requires >> at least minimal knowledge about the source/build/etc). >> >> Thank you for your valuable feedback, I'm very happy we're having this kind >> of interaction! >> >> Sincerely, >> karni >> >> On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 5:47 PM, Ask Hjorth Larsen <a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','asklarsen@gmail.com');" target="_blank"><asklarsen@gmail.com></a><div><div> >> wrote: >>> >>> Hello Michal >>> >>> 2015-03-31 17:19 GMT+02:00 Michal Karnicki >>> <a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','michal.karnicki@canonical.com');" target="_blank"><michal.karnicki@canonical.com></a>: >>>> I have to admit I wasn't aware of that page. Now that I think of it, it >>>> would be really awesome to reuse the strings from one of those apps, >>>> however >>>> it may be difficult. >>>> >>>> a) Currently I'm the only internal developer + one actively contributing >>>> community developer on "Telegram for Ubuntu" and as such, our resources >>>> are >>>> limited. We're working on features, while trying to find time for bug >>>> fixes. >>>> I doubt we'd find time to try convert Transifex output to a pot form - >>>> but >>>> perhaps you know if it does support gettext format out of the box? Is it >>>> available for download? >>> >>> a) po-files can be exported from Transifex without any problem. One >>> can then use msgmerge from gettext to move strings from one po-file >>> into another to the extent that they are identical or nearly identical >>> (will be marked as "fuzzy"; but that feature is, painfully, not >>> supported by Launchpad). >>> >>>> b) If we were to reuse those, we would have to re-align our app in some >>>> places for those strings to match our UI flows. >>> >>> I guess this would be the responsibility of the translator. Normally >>> when we translate programmes we do not care much about the exact >>> length of a string. I guess in many cases we have to be more careful >>> on mobile phones. How do people generally test the translations - >>> with a virtual machine? >>> >>>> c) I believe we're simply not enough feature complete and stable to >>>> request >>>> moving in to Transifex for our translations. I may be wrong though on >>>> this, >>>> so I will reach out to Telegram task force with a question. >>>> >>>> While we're not at capacity to reuse those translated strings, and I >>>> belive >>>> our community is quite strong, at the same time if there's anyone that >>>> would >>>> like to support the effort of re-using Transifex output for our app >>>> (also >>>> engineering-wise), I am more than happy to try support this effort as >>>> well. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> karni >>> >>> I understand now that the Ubuntu app is developed completely >>> separately from e.g. the Android one, correct? If the messages are >>> not reused between them, then probably it is not so important to worry >>> about this. If they are reused, I'd say that they should be merged >>> and then the translators have to review the formatting somehow. >>> >>> Best regards >>> Ask >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 4:45 PM, Ask Hjorth Larsen <a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','asklarsen@gmail.com');" target="_blank"><asklarsen@gmail.com></a> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hello (this particularly for the developers) >>>>> >>>>> The telegram web page specifies a translation on Transifex [1]. Now >>>>> we also have translations on Launchpad. How is this to be approached? >>>>> Is one better/more official than the other? I assume there is no >>>>> synchronization between them. >>>>> >>>>> Best regards >>>>> Ask >>>>> >>>>> [1] <a href="https://telegram.org/faq#q-can-i-translate-telegram" target="_blank">https://telegram.org/faq#q-can-i-translate-telegram</a> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2015-03-31 16:31 GMT+02:00 Michal Karnicki >>>>> <a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','michal.karnicki@canonical.com');" target="_blank"><michal.karnicki@canonical.com></a>: >>>>>> Yes, thank you Víctor >>>>>> . We have a phrase with no format specifier (This contact is on >>>>>> Telegram) >>>>>> and one with two (n our of m contacts are on Telegram), and Launchpad >>>>>> doesn't like it. We'll fix it soon, thank you for your patience. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> karni >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 4:27 PM, Víctor R. Ruiz >>>>>> <a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','victor.ruiz@canonical.com');" target="_blank"><victor.ruiz@canonical.com></a> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 3:03 PM, marcoslans <a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','marcoslans@hotmail.com');" target="_blank"><marcoslans@hotmail.com></a> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> Yes, I get the same issue in galician language. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> David told me in IRC that they are aware of the issue and probably >>>>>>> will be changing the phrase, so skip it rigth now. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Greetings, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Víctor R. Ruiz | - All this moments will be lost >>>>>>> <a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','victor.ruiz@canonical.com');" target="_blank">victor.ruiz@canonical.com</a> | like tears in the rain >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> ubuntu-translators mailing list >>>>>>> <a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com');" target="_blank">ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com</a> >>>>>>> <a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators" target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators</a> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Software Engineer >>>>>> Professional and Engineering Services >>>>>> Canonical Ltd. >>>>>> >>>>>> Ubuntu - Linux for human beings | <a href="http://www.ubuntu.com" target="_blank">www.ubuntu.com</a> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> ubuntu-translators mailing list >>>>>> <a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com');" target="_blank">ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com</a> >>>>>> <a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators" target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators</a> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Software Engineer >>>> Professional and Engineering Services >>>> Canonical Ltd. >>>> >>>> Ubuntu - Linux for human beings | <a href="http://www.ubuntu.com" target="_blank">www.ubuntu.com</a> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Software Engineer >> Professional and Engineering Services >> Canonical Ltd. >> >> Ubuntu - Linux for human beings | <a href="http://www.ubuntu.com" target="_blank">www.ubuntu.com</a> > </div></div></pre> <br> </div> <br> <div> <div title="Premer para traducir"></div> </div> </div> <br>--<br> ubuntu-translators mailing list<br> <a href="javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com');" target="_blank">ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com</a><br> <a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators" target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators</a><br> <br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div><div dir="ltr">Software Engineer<br>Professional and Engineering Services<br>Canonical Ltd.<div><br>Ubuntu - Linux for human beings | <a href="http://www.ubuntu.com/" style="color:rgb(17,85,204)" target="_blank">www.ubuntu.com</a></div></div></div> </div> </blockquote></div><br><br>-- <br><div dir="ltr">Cheers, <br>by Cheng-Chia Tseng</div><br>