<html><head><style type='text/css'>p { margin: 0; }</style></head><body><div style='font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 12pt; color: #000000'>Tom<div> </div><div>If I understand you well, there will be some exceptions where the computer will need to be made aware of its place ;) ?</div><div> </div><div>A Friday beer now and again with the boss is good, helps me to figure him out for the following week's needs ;)</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Anthony</div><div> <hr>From: "Tom Davies" <tomdavies04@yahoo.co.uk> To: "Dennis Baudys" <thecondor@arcor.de>, goof@coppernet.zm Cc: ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 5:52:57 PM Subject: Re: Who speaks Frist: Human or Computer <table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tbody><tr><td valign="top" style="font: inherit;">Hi :) My boss would be quite reasonable to expect to be able to tell me to do something with some reasonable expectation of me following his order. If we have a quick beer after work then he wouldn't treat me the same way, or at least would be less surprised when i don't do what he says. Not that we go drinking often. Regards from Tom :) --- On Mon, 7/5/12, goof@coppernet.zm <goof@coppernet.zm> wrote: <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"> From: goof@coppernet.zm <goof@coppernet.zm> Subject: Re: Who speaks Frist: Human or Computer To: "Dennis Baudys" <thecondor@arcor.de> Cc: ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com Date: Monday, 7 May, 2012, 14:27 <div id="yiv726588852"><style>#yiv726588852 p {margin:0;}</style><div><div style="font-family: Times New Roman; font-size: 12pt; color: rgb(0, 0, 0);">Hi Dennis<div style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 12pt;"> </div><div>So in German, you just state an action to be performed as a way of avoiding the use of Du or Sie? </div><div>When you see a menu item "Datei öffnen" does it give a sense that the human expects the computer to Open the file while the computer quietly goes ahead and carries out the request? Is there a distinction with social 'behaviour' in this manner of acting such that the people expect that this is only ok if dealing with a computer?</div><div> </div><div>thanks</div><div> </div><div>Anthony</div><div> <hr style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: 'Times New Roman'; font-size: 12pt;">From: "Dennis Baudys" <thecondor@arcor.de> To: goof@coppernet.zm Cc: ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com Sent: Monday, May 7, 2012 2:45:16 PM Subject: Re: Who speaks Frist: Human or Computer Hi Anthony! Am Montag, den 07.05.2012, 12:35 +0200 schrieb goof@coppernet.zm: > Hello fellow translators, > > > I have hit what I might call a big problem with my language, Bemba. In > this language, the way we address a young person is different to the > the way we address an older person in speech and writing. In German, we do that too. There is a difference between »Du« (young/informal) and »Sie« (elderly/formal). In the German translation, we _never_ use the young/informal type. Maybe the young/informal type can be found in old translations of games, but imho this is not correct and has to be fixed some day. > When I started to translate Ubuntu from English to Bemba, I assumed > that the computer is telling the user what it can do and so is in a > way talking to the person first. In German, we nearly never use direct speech. That means, the computer does not »speak« to the user. The messages are most often phrases in the infinitive and passive form (a few exemptions are to be made for direct dialog prompts like »Do you really want to quit?«). > Because of this, I chose to use the respectful alternative to > addressing a human user. This way the computer will always sound like > it is not being rude to the user. This approach has presented a small > problem with some people who have reviewed some of my translations. > They are of the opinion that I should always assume that the user is > telling the computer to do something, thus the instruction should be > like a human talking to someone they supervise in order for them do > have something done for them. The respectful manner should only be > used by the computer when it displays something as a reaction to the > user input. > > > An example is 'Open File'. The question is: In this case, is the menu > item in the computer application telling the human that it able to > open a file or it is the human who is telling the computer to open the > file? I ask this because depending on which is which, my translations > approach will have a whole new twist and I would have to re-check my > approach. In menu items, the German translators team always use the infinitive, like that: »Datei öffnen« (correct) instead of »Öffnen Sie die Datei« (bad) or »Öffne (Du) die Datei« (very bad). > Please advise if any of you have such a language challenge and what > side you have taken: Is it the human that tell the computer what to do > such that its responses are only when a dialogue box opens or it is > the computer that tells the human what it can do and so seems to > 'speak' first and advises the human of what it is able to do? … Hopefully that helps. Kind Regards, -- Dennis Baudys email: thecondor@arcor.de GPG key-ID: E4A9FB08 fingerprint: CB9A 86FF 1C20 0426 3912 0276 3A78 E23F E4A9 FB08 Prüfer im deutschen Ubuntu-Übersetzer-Team launchpad: ~thecondordb </div></div></div></div> -----Inline Attachment Follows----- <div class="plainMail">-- ubuntu-translators mailing list <a href="/mc/compose?to=ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com" target="_blank">ubuntu-translators@lists.ubuntu.com</a> <a href="https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators" target="_blank">https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators</a> </div></blockquote></td></tr></tbody></table></div></div></body></html>