Call for Telegram translations

Michal Karnicki michal.karnicki at canonical.com
Thu Apr 2 10:40:06 UTC 2015 

Hello Cheng-Chia Tseng
​,

Thank you for your valuable feedback, I appreciate your opinion. I do agree
on "
problem is more about the ways of cooperation than choices of translation
platform
​". Thank you for the link, I will certainly review it :)

Have a nice day,
karni

On Thu, Apr 2, 2015 at 4:58 AM, Cheng-Chia Tseng <pswo10680 at gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> Michal Karnicki <michal.karnicki at canonical.com> 於 2015年4月1日 星期三寫道：
>
>> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think iPhone, Windows Phone and Android
>> (among others) use different formats. Transifex seems to support po files,
>> though [1]
>>
>> Hey all, I wanted to open up with saying THANK YOU to your sustained
>> contributions to translations. It's an amazing and helpful community we
>> have here. I had a discussion with David, which I'd like to summarize here.
>>
>> Let me first say that I am very happy and pleased Telegram team was kind
>> enough to agree to open up Transifex for Telegram for Ubuntu translation.
>> They're amazing bunch of folks, and I think this shows they care about
>> Telegram presence on other platforms as well. While re-using string
>> translations done for other Telegram clients in Transifex sounds promising
>> and encouraging, there is a concern whether at current stage of our project
>> it wouldn't introduce coordinating issues. I won't get too much into detail
>> now, but after listening to David's opinion I recognize those matters.
>>
>> However, since this was brought up by Ask, I would be keen to know
>> whether community would be willing to do the following research work that
>> would bring us closer to making good use of Transifex, should we choose to
>> do so in the future.
>> Please voice in whoever's familiar with Transifex translations. Android
>> app uses this sort of compressed string placeholders, like, for "Secret
>> chat cancelled" you would have something like (just an example)
>> "SecretCancel" placeholder in the source, which in turn is translated to
>> 'Secret chat cancelled' in different languages. Does Transifex suggestion
>> engine (for already translated strings) make use of those placeholders as
>> keys? *If* it does, it would be interesting to evaluate how much effort it
>> would be to:
>> 1) replace all strings the source with placeholders (re-using as much
>> placeholders from other clients as possible, say Android - as we used that
>> to model our own client)
>> 2) ensure this doesn't do havoc in already made Launchpad translations
>> (i.e. we have to distinguish here that we're making use of msgid field, not
>> msgstr)
>>
>> If that is possible, I would expect we can have ~95% strings covered in
>> our app based on strings from other clients. At the same time, I would like
>> to make sure that our translators community efforts are preserved, if we do
>> decide to make the switch eventually.
>>
>> To conclude - we're sticking for Launchpad translations for time being,
>> but it would be great if anyone interested could explore the above
>> mentioned area, that I'm currently simply not at capacity that I could
>> address it myself (or at least on my own :) ).
>>
>> Let me know what you think, have a great day,
>> karni
>>
>
>
> From my view as an translator, Transifex is just another translation
> platform. I would like my workflow on ubuntu translation could be done
> toally on Launchpad without creating another account and translate just for
> one app.
>
> However, translators have to have some conversations with those
> translators on Transifex to make the translated terms consistent on all
> platforms which Telegram translation style guide asks. [1]
>
> I think the problem is more about the ways of cooperation than choices of
> translation platform.
>
> It is more comfortable that we stick to Launchpad.
>
> 1. https://core.telegram.org/translating_telegram
>
>
>>
>> [1] http://docs.transifex.com/developer/formats/gettext
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 1, 2015 at 11:53 AM, marcoslans <marcoslans at hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>  So Telegram translations in Transifex use xml format not po format.
>>> Merging would be a hard job for most of translators.
>>>
>>> On 01/04/15 10:50, Ask Hjorth Larsen wrote:
>>> > Thank you karni :)
>>> >
>>> > So in conclusion, I understand that some advantage can be gained by
>>> > merging, but it's probably difficult to achieve automatically in a
>>> > meaningful way.  Translators could do it though by downloading the
>>> > po-files and running msgmerge.  Thank you!
>>> >
>>> > Best regards
>>> > Ask
>>> >
>>> > 2015-03-31 18:18 GMT+02:00 Michal Karnicki <michal.karnicki at canonical.com>:
>>> >> Hi Ask (what a nice, interesting name! :) ),
>>> >>
>>> >> a) Yes, I've been pointed to Transifex documentation by rvr. It's great they
>>> >> also support po files!
>>> >>
>>> >> b) when I said UI flows I rather meant things like "ok, Android doesn't have
>>> >> this dialog, but has one button more here" or "they don't support entering
>>> >> contact phone [imported from phone book], so we'll need to figure which
>>> >> other strings can we use here", etc. Meaning, the UI's are not same, but
>>> >> indeed very close. I guess if we reused their strings, but ended up with a
>>> >> couple untranslated, would still be a fantastic opportunity.
>>> >>
>>> >> c) Yes. Telegram for Ubuntu was Canonical effort to have a usable instant
>>> >> messenger for the phone (I won't get here into much detailed plans around
>>> >> that), but as you know - Canonical isn't a big company, so ideally we'll
>>> >> arrive at the point where the code base is much more inviting and we could
>>> >> sustain it with community contributions. Going back to the subject - the
>>> >> UI's are very similar, but the strings are not reused (you may have noticed
>>> >> Android uses short compressed strings as keys for translating, whereas our
>>> >> QML already contains English phrases. If we wanted to reuse that, we would
>>> >> have to go through the whole source, and replace our text with those
>>> >> key-placeholders, for which I know I don't have time :(  ).
>>> >>
>>> >> Certainly the strings are reused visually - we took what we saw in Android
>>> >> Telegram UI and added stuff to Telegram for Ubuntu, so while it's not
>>> >> feasable with current resources, it's something (re-use of strings) that we
>>> >> could certainly do with some community help (community in general, I'm not
>>> >> thinking specifically about translators here, notably because this requires
>>> >> at least minimal knowledge about the source/build/etc).
>>> >>
>>> >> Thank you for your valuable feedback, I'm very happy we're having this kind
>>> >> of interaction!
>>> >>
>>> >> Sincerely,
>>> >> karni
>>> >>
>>> >> On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 5:47 PM, Ask Hjorth Larsen <asklarsen at gmail.com>
>>>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Hello Michal
>>> >>>
>>> >>> 2015-03-31 17:19 GMT+02:00 Michal Karnicki
>>> >>> <michal.karnicki at canonical.com>:
>>> >>>> I have to admit I wasn't aware of that page. Now that I think of it, it
>>> >>>> would be really awesome to reuse the strings from one of those apps,
>>> >>>> however
>>> >>>> it may be difficult.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> a) Currently I'm the only internal developer + one actively contributing
>>> >>>> community developer on "Telegram for Ubuntu" and as such, our resources
>>> >>>> are
>>> >>>> limited. We're working on features, while trying to find time for bug
>>> >>>> fixes.
>>> >>>> I doubt we'd find time to try convert Transifex output to a pot form -
>>> >>>> but
>>> >>>> perhaps you know if it does support gettext format out of the box? Is it
>>> >>>> available for download?
>>> >>>
>>> >>> a) po-files can be exported from Transifex without any problem.  One
>>> >>> can then use msgmerge from gettext to move strings from one po-file
>>> >>> into another to the extent that they are identical or nearly identical
>>> >>> (will be marked as "fuzzy"; but that feature is, painfully, not
>>> >>> supported by Launchpad).
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> b) If we were to reuse those, we would have to re-align our app in some
>>> >>>> places for those strings to match our UI flows.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I guess this would be the responsibility of the translator.  Normally
>>> >>> when we translate programmes we do not care much about the exact
>>> >>> length of a string.  I guess in many cases we have to be more careful
>>> >>> on mobile phones.  How do people generally test the translations -
>>> >>> with a virtual machine?
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> c) I believe we're simply not enough feature complete and stable to
>>> >>>> request
>>> >>>> moving in to Transifex for our translations. I may be wrong though on
>>> >>>> this,
>>> >>>> so I will reach out to Telegram task force with a question.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> While we're not at capacity to reuse those translated strings, and I
>>> >>>> belive
>>> >>>> our community is quite strong, at the same time if there's anyone that
>>> >>>> would
>>> >>>> like to support the effort of re-using Transifex output for our app
>>> >>>> (also
>>> >>>> engineering-wise), I am more than happy to try support this effort as
>>> >>>> well.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Thanks,
>>> >>>> karni
>>> >>>
>>> >>> I understand now that the Ubuntu app is developed completely
>>> >>> separately from e.g. the Android one, correct?  If the messages are
>>> >>> not reused between them, then probably it is not so important to worry
>>> >>> about this.  If they are reused, I'd say that they should be merged
>>> >>> and then the translators have to review the formatting somehow.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Best regards
>>> >>> Ask
>>> >>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 4:45 PM, Ask Hjorth Larsen <asklarsen at gmail.com>
>>> >>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Hello (this particularly for the developers)
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> The telegram web page specifies a translation on Transifex [1].  Now
>>> >>>>> we also have translations on Launchpad.  How is this to be approached?
>>> >>>>>  Is one better/more official than the other?  I assume there is no
>>> >>>>> synchronization between them.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Best regards
>>> >>>>> Ask
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> [1] https://telegram.org/faq#q-can-i-translate-telegram
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> 2015-03-31 16:31 GMT+02:00 Michal Karnicki
>>> >>>>> <michal.karnicki at canonical.com>:
>>> >>>>>> Yes, thank you Víctor
>>> >>>>>> . We have a phrase with no format specifier (This contact is on
>>> >>>>>> Telegram)
>>> >>>>>> and one with two (n our of m contacts are on Telegram), and Launchpad
>>> >>>>>> doesn't like it. We'll fix it soon, thank you for your patience.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Thanks,
>>> >>>>>> karni
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 4:27 PM, Víctor R. Ruiz
>>> >>>>>> <victor.ruiz at canonical.com>
>>> >>>>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>   Hi:
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 3:03 PM, marcoslans <marcoslans at hotmail.com>
>>> >>>>>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>> Yes, I get the same issue in galician language.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>   David told me in IRC that they are aware of the issue and probably
>>> >>>>>>> will be changing the phrase, so skip it rigth now.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>   Greetings,
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> --
>>> >>>>>>> Víctor R. Ruiz  | - All this moments will be lost
>>> >>>>>>> victor.ruiz at canonical.com | like tears in the rain
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> --
>>> >>>>>>> ubuntu-translators mailing list
>>> >>>>>>> ubuntu-translators at lists.ubuntu.com
>>> >>>>>>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> --
>>> >>>>>> Software Engineer
>>> >>>>>> Professional and Engineering Services
>>> >>>>>> Canonical Ltd.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Ubuntu - Linux for human beings | www.ubuntu.com
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> --
>>> >>>>>> ubuntu-translators mailing list
>>> >>>>>> ubuntu-translators at lists.ubuntu.com
>>> >>>>>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> --
>>> >>>> Software Engineer
>>> >>>> Professional and Engineering Services
>>> >>>> Canonical Ltd.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Ubuntu - Linux for human beings | www.ubuntu.com
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> Software Engineer
>>> >> Professional and Engineering Services
>>> >> Canonical Ltd.
>>> >>
>>> >> Ubuntu - Linux for human beings | www.ubuntu.com
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> ubuntu-translators mailing list
>>> ubuntu-translators at lists.ubuntu.com
>>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Software Engineer
>> Professional and Engineering Services
>> Canonical Ltd.
>>
>> Ubuntu - Linux for human beings | www.ubuntu.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Cheers,
> by Cheng-Chia Tseng
>
>


-- 
Software Engineer
Professional and Engineering Services
Canonical Ltd.

Ubuntu - Linux for human beings | www.ubuntu.com
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