Semi-mechanizing the DTTP translations

Hendrik Knackstedt hendrik.knackstedt at t-online.de
Sun Dec 23 10:39:52 UTC 2012


Am 23.12.2012 10:33, schrieb Redmar:
> Hendrik Knackstedt schreef op do 20-12-2012 om 17:39 [+0100]:
>> Am 20.12.2012 13:43, schrieb Pierre Slamich:
>>
>>> I don't have a clean way to split them right now. I split them by
>>> size to keep below 900ko (I took 800 for safety), but I then had to
>>> adjust manually because the strings were split right in the middle.
>> Ok, I'll take a look at it and see if I can come up with something
>> useful.
> I've been working with python-polib for a bit, so I think I'd be able to
> create a script to split up a po file into multiple parts pretty
> quickly. I haven't started yet, since I don't want to do duplicate work,
> but please let me know if you want me to make a script or if you need
> help with python-polib.

If you can do this, that's great. Thanks!

Hendrik
>
> Regards,
>
> Redmar
> --
> Ubuntu Dutch Translators
>>> If you don't mind, it would be great to take advantage of the German
>>> process to automate the process as much as possible.
>>> Would you be willing to expand the pad
>>> (http://lite.framapad.org/p/ddtpUbuntu) with us (yet another proof
>>> of French-German partnership ;-P)?
>> Sure. What do you mean by "the German process"? I'm a bit short on
>> time right now but just let me know what has to be done and I'll try
>> to get it done asap.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Hendrik
>>>
>>> Pierre
>>>
>>> On Thu, Dec 20, 2012 at 1:35 PM, Hendrik Knackstedt
>>> <hendrik.knackstedt at t-online.de> wrote:
>>>         Hey Pierre!
>>>         
>>>         
>>>         I'd like to test your approach for the German language also.
>>>         How exactly did you split the files? Did you use an existing
>>>         program/script or can you provide a script for doing this?
>>>         Thanks!
>>>         
>>>         Hendrik
>>>         
>>>         Am 19.12.2012 15:58, schrieb Pierre Slamich:
>>>         
>>>         > Yes, although we might be finished by then ;-) 
>>>         > Thanks to the method we're reviewing and correcting around
>>>         > 1000 strings per day at the moment.
>>>         > 
>>>         > 
>>>         > sincerely,
>>>         > Pierre
>>>         > 
>>>         > 
>>>         > On Tue, Dec 18, 2012 at 4:06 PM, Hannie Dumoleyn
>>>         > <lafeber-dumoleyn2 at zonnet.nl> wrote:
>>>         >         Hi Pierre, Redmar, and all who are interested,
>>>         >         Would it be an idea to brainstorm on this in
>>>         >         #ubuntu-translators? Perhaps in January 2013?
>>>         >         I agree with Redmar that the msgmerge is a good
>>>         >         method, especially for huge documents. The only
>>>         >         snag is that you still have to approve the fuzzies
>>>         >         offline before uploading the file back to
>>>         >         Launchpad. We use this method for the Ubuntu
>>>         >         Manual "Getting started with Ubuntu" (Lucid >
>>>         >         Maverick > ....> Raring) and with success.
>>>         >         Redmar, sorry for not yet having tested your
>>>         >         popsort :( 
>>>         >         Regards,
>>>         >         Hannie
>>>         >         
>>>         >         Op 18-12-12 00:51, Pierre Slamich schreef:
>>>         >         
>>>         >         > Hi Hannie, Hi Redmar, 
>>>         >         > Thanks a lot for the tips: we're interested in
>>>         >         > using your approach, and more generally it might
>>>         >         > be interesting expending the msmerge approach to
>>>         >         > all teams that are already underway for the
>>>         >         > DDTP, and the Google one to the teams that need
>>>         >         > to get started.
>>>         >         > 
>>>         >         > 
>>>         >         > - For the Google Translator Kit approach, I
>>>         >         > guess we could extend the mock project we did
>>>         >         > for fr_FR to other languages (and streamlining
>>>         >         > our process by using Bazaar) by creating a
>>>         >         > global team responsible for the DDTP Mock
>>>         >         > project and including in this team one member
>>>         >         > from each language team responsible for
>>>         >         > uploading the machine translated po for his or
>>>         >         > her language.
>>>         >         > 
>>>         >         > 
>>>         >         > - For the msmerge approach, do you already have
>>>         >         > a project to handle this ? Is there any
>>>         >         > advantage in msmerging raring against releases
>>>         >         > older than quantal to get more modified
>>>         >         > strings ? How many strings have you been able to
>>>         >         > recover using that approach ?  It might be neat
>>>         >         > to generate the msmerged po for all languages ?
>>>         >         > Importing them as actual translations (not
>>>         >         > fuzzy) into a mock project like the Google
>>>         >         > Translate one would show them as suggestions for
>>>         >         > the actual DDTP as well.
>>>         >         > The translator would thus be able to pick the
>>>         >         > human translated one when available or to build
>>>         >         > on the machine translated one otherwise.
>>>         >         > 
>>>         >         > 
>>>         >         > Can we try to schedule some time to coordinate
>>>         >         > on this so that we can use both approaches and
>>>         >         > try to onboard all the other languages teams
>>>         >         > once we have a rock-solid process ?
>>>         >         > 
>>>         >         > 
>>>         >         > Pierre
>>>         >         > 
>>>         >         > Pierre Slamich
>>>         >         > pierre.slamich at gmail.com
>>>         >         > 
>>>         >         > 
>>>         >         > 
>>>         >         > On Mon, Dec 17, 2012 at 10:30 PM, Redmar
>>>         >         > <redmar at ubuntu-nl.org> wrote:
>>>         >         >         Hi Pierre,
>>>         >         >         
>>>         >         >         I've actually tried a similar approach
>>>         >         >         for Dutch using msgmerge, which
>>>         >         >         might also be worth checking out. When
>>>         >         >         you merge the translations of an
>>>         >         >         older version of ubuntu into the current
>>>         >         >         version (msgmerge
>>>         >         >         quantal_ddtp.po raring_ddtp.po -o
>>>         >         >         merged_ddtp.po, for example), there
>>>         >         >         will be a lot of 'fuzzy' translations
>>>         >         >         for strings that are similar (for
>>>         >         >         example, meta packages for different
>>>         >         >         programs, debugging symbols etc).
>>>         >         >         These fuzzy often only need a few small
>>>         >         >         changes (eg program name) to be
>>>         >         >         accepted, which can really speed up
>>>         >         >         translations. And you don't have to
>>>         >         >         worry about google putting in a weird
>>>         >         >         translation, since it is all based
>>>         >         >         on earlier translations done by a human.
>>>         >         >         
>>>         >         >         On a related note, if any of you work on
>>>         >         >         ddtp-translations offline, I
>>>         >         >         have written a python program that can
>>>         >         >         sort entries in ddtp po-files
>>>         >         >         based on the popularity of the package.
>>>         >         >         This way, the most popular
>>>         >         >         packages will be at the top of the po
>>>         >         >         file, and you are always sure you
>>>         >         >         are working on the most important
>>>         >         >         packages first.
>>>         >         >         
>>>         >         >         You can get the code here:
>>>         >         >         bzr branch lp:~redmar/+junk/ddtp_popsort
>>>         >         >         
>>>         >         >         It has a small readme file, please let
>>>         >         >         me know if something is unclear
>>>         >         >         or not working for you.
>>>         >         >         
>>>         >         >         Regards,
>>>         >         >         Redmar
>>>         >         >         --
>>>         >         >         Ubuntu Dutch Translators
>>>         >         >         
>>>         >         >         
>>>         >         >         Hannie Dumoleyn schreef op ma 17-12-2012
>>>         >         >         om 17:58 [+0100]:
>>>         >         >         > Hello Pierre,
>>>         >         >         > This is a very good idea! I have just
>>>         >         >         uploaded the first part of the
>>>         >         >         > incomplete Dutch translation (900kb)
>>>         >         >         to GTT.
>>>         >         >         > Thanks,
>>>         >         >         > Hannie
>>>         >         >         >
>>>         >         >         > Op 17-12-12 12:55, Pierre Slamich
>>>         >         >         schreef:
>>>         >         >         >
>>>         >         >         > > The DDTP represent around 50 000
>>>         >         >         strings to translate * 140
>>>         >         >         > > languages. On very good weeks, a
>>>         >         >         typical translation team translates
>>>         >         >         > > 500 strings (see UWN for examples
>>>         >         >         weekly figures).
>>>         >         >         > >
>>>         >         >         > >
>>>         >         >         > > Would take a lot of weeks (years?)
>>>         >         >         with highly motivated volunteers
>>>         >         >         > > of a large translation team, working
>>>         >         >         non-stop, at their best to get
>>>         >         >         > > done with it.
>>>         >         >         > > Thus we had the idea to delegate
>>>         >         >         initial translation suggestions to
>>>         >         >         > > Google Translator Kit and review
>>>         >         >         translations with humans to speed
>>>         >         >         > > the process.
>>>         >         >         > >
>>>         >         >         > > We successfully did an import for
>>>         >         >         circa 40 000 French strings  (yup
>>>         >         >         > > you read that right) this week-end
>>>         >         >         in a mock project called DDTP
>>>         >         >         > > Automation
>>>         >         >         (https://translations.launchpad.net/ddtpautomation).
>>>         >         >         > > To keep it short, the translations
>>>         >         >         from this project appear as
>>>         >         >         > > suggestions in the French DDTP, and
>>>         >         >         can be reviewed by actual
>>>         >         >         > > translators.
>>>         >         >         > > We've started using them, and it
>>>         >         >         turns out that a lot of them are
>>>         >         >         > > actually useful and are speeding up
>>>         >         >         the translation process a lot.
>>>         >         >         > >
>>>         >         >         > > We detailed the (somewhat) tedious
>>>         >         >         process in English at
>>>         >         >         > >
>>>         >         >         http://lite.framapad.org/p/ddtpUbuntu
>>>         >         >         > > Questions and inquiries welcome.
>>>         >         >         > >
>>>         >         >         > > Pierre
>>>         >         >         > >
>>>         >         >         > >
>>>         >         >         > > ---
>>>         >         >         > > pierre.slamich at gmail.com
>>>         >         >         > >
>>>         >         >         > >
>>>         >         >         >
>>>         >         >         
>>>         >         >         
>>>         >         >         
>>>         >         >         --
>>>         >         >         ubuntu-translators mailing list
>>>         >         >         ubuntu-translators at lists.ubuntu.com
>>>         >         >         https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
>>>         >         >         
>>>         >         > 
>>>         >         > 
>>>         >         
>>>         >         
>>>         > 
>>>         > 
>>>         > 
>>>         > 
>>>         
>>>         
>>>         
>>>         --
>>>         ubuntu-translators mailing list
>>>         ubuntu-translators at lists.ubuntu.com
>>>         https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-translators
>>>         
>>>
>>>
>
>

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